Minimum level of accuracy to clean an Fclass target.

[Fairchaser]

With regard to F class FTR and Open, what do you consider a minimum level of accuracy for cleaning a target? Obviously, 1 MOA will clean a target but when you factor in conditions, shooter error and bullet dispersion, a higher level of precision is required to clean targets at mid range and long range.

What’s the minimum you require for your match rifle to compete at the highest levels? How do you measure that; group size, number of shots, at what distance, MR, ES, SD, etc.

 

[dsinfour]

F class paper I believe is. 5 minute of angle

 

[B Nettesheim]

1/2 minute 10 shot groups, focused only on group sizes at 1000, es/sd don’t go on the score sheet so I don’t pay a lot of attention to it. Round groups also

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Half MOA will give you a little wiggle room to stay in the 10 ring

 

[Fairchaser]

Half MOA will give you a little wiggle room to stay in the 10 ring

Obviously 1/2 MOA at distance is different than 100 or even 300 yds. Do you use MOA or Mean Radius to determine MOA?

 

[Bottom Fodder]

The point I was trying to make is a 600 target the X is 3 inch (half MOA) if your set up is capable of doing that then the shooter has a little wiggle room to keep it in the 10 ring which is 6 lnches ( 1 MOA) I guess I didn’t state that very clear or I just don’t know what I’m talking about I’m kinda new at this and probably should not put my 2 cents in

 

[Jeff Porter]

Obviously 1/2 MOA at distance is different than 100 or even 300 yds. Do you use MOA or Mean Radius to determine MOA?

No 1/2 moa is the same at all distances. It is an angular measurement and while the number of inches across will increase as your target distance increases, your hold and group size remain proportional to the moa. The targets at 200-300-600 and 1000 get bigger as they go out farther but the scoring rings are the same moa on all.

In calm conditions ….From the muzzle out to distance the cone of fire you can hold and your loads precision will be fairly constant until your bullet begins to lose stability. Bullet does not care how far the target is. Wind effects become amplified at distance but I don’t think your question included how well you can read the wind and adjust for that.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Like you said, 1 moa will do it if everything worked out perfectly. The thing is, you will be shooting against guys who are tuning their rifles to shoot under 3" at 1k (5 shot groups). My mentality with competition has always been to bring the smallest shooting rifle possible. That gives me more room for error.

 

[VA_XTC_Shooter]

Obviously 1/2 MOA at distance is different than 100 or even 300 yds. Do you use MOA or Mean Radius to determine MOA?

MOA is MOA. Mean Radius is a different way to measure a group that utilizes ALL shots in the group, not just the two furthest apart. You can describe MR in MOA or inches or however else you want to measure it.

 

[Fairchaser]

I wasn’t very clear when I said MOA was different at various distances. It is the same calculation. I meant that it was more difficult to achieve with greater distance. Thus, 1/2 MOA at 600 might be good enough to compete but not 1/2 MOA at 100. Based on what you are saying, I should be looking for a load that can produce 20 Xs in ideal conditions.

 

[Steel Mover]

A good rule of thumb is 1/2 size groups of those required, in accuracy, to clean the targets. As the man said; "There is nothing stock about a stock car." If you can not build you must have it built and precision, in anything is just expensive. A good builder only has so many hours left in their light bulb.

If you must have precision built, get proof, the proof is in the pudding, not words. Plus equipment is just the start, you must be capable and that only comes with practice and more practice.

 

[Dave M.]

With regard to F class FTR and Open, what do you consider a minimum level of accuracy for cleaning a target? Obviously, 1 MOA will clean a target but when you factor in conditions, shooter error and bullet dispersion, a higher level of precision is required to clean targets at mid range and long range.

What’s the minimum you require for your match rifle to compete at the highest levels? How do you measure that; group size, number of shots, at what distance, MR, ES, SD, etc.

My .284 rifle shoots consistent 5 shot groups in the low to mid .3xx’s and 10 shot groups in the mid .4xx’s; and I just fired a clean Saturday scorecard of 600-36X at 1000 yards in a rainy and switching wind day. To answer your question, I think a rifle that consistently shoots 10 shots groups under 1/2 MOA at 100 can be very competitive assuming the shooter is capable of reading and making the necessary wind adjustments. Let’s be honest, at 100 yards, wind has very little effect on a heavy 180 grain bullet. I can hold the crosshairs on the same spot and fire 10 shots that I know will be inside of 1/2 MOA, with almost complete disregard for the wind. The same cannot be said for 1000 yards. I could likely run 10 shots quickly enough at 1000 yards to stay under 1 MOA (all shots in the 10 ring, but obviously not inside 1/2 MOA).
At the end of the day, a consistent 5 shot group rifle that will shoot in the .3xx’s at 100 yards, will definitely be near a top rifle on the line. How that rifle performs at 1000 yards will depend on the skill level of the shooter you put behind it. To make a point, I took a winning rifle and load at 1000 yards, and allowed my son to shoot it last month. He shot his personal best which I was very proud of, but clearly he wasn’t able to score with the rifle on the same level that I have been able to.
I hope that makes everything clear as mud.
Dave

 

[Dave M.]

Obviously 1/2 MOA at distance is different than 100 or even 300 yds. Do you use MOA or Mean Radius to determine MOA?

I don’t think there is a solid correlation between MOA and mean radius, especially when you are talking about 1000 yard work.

 

[Dave M.]

I wasn’t very clear when I said MOA was different at various distances. It is the same calculation. I meant that it was more difficult to achieve with greater distance. Thus, 1/2 MOA at 600 might be good enough to compete but not 1/2 MOA at 100. Based on what you are saying, I should be looking for a load that can produce 20 Xs in ideal conditions.

1/2 MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yards, is more than adequate to compete at 1000 yards, and if you wind reading skills are good, it’s even capable of winning. However, personally I want to see 5 shot groups at 100 yards in the .2’s to mid .3’s, before I truly believe the rifle is ready to win at 1000 yards (with my wind reading skills, that is).
Dave

 

[Ned Ludd]

I wasn’t very clear when I said MOA was different at various distances. It is the same calculation. I meant that it was more difficult to achieve with greater distance. Thus, 1/2 MOA at 600 might be good enough to compete but not 1/2 MOA at 100. Based on what you are saying, I should be looking for a load that can produce 20 Xs in ideal conditions.

Forget about the X-count. Not many F-Class shooters have ever fired 20Xs in a single match, even under the most benign possible conditions. If that were to be the goal, you'd likey burn your barrel out without ever attaining it. Start with a more reasonable goal, such as developing a load that is capable of shooting cleans at 600 yd in relatively benign conditions. As you gain experience, the relationship between load development groups fired at 100 yd, and what those same loads are actually capable of in your hands under match conditions at 600 or 1000 yd will become more clear. The long-term goal should always be to have a setup/load shooting sufficiently well that your ability to make wind calls is always the limiting factor.

 

[ronsatspokane]

What Dave and Ned are saying. I've got a 6BRA with a Haverkamp action, 30inch 8 twist Kreiger barrel and Nightforce Comp scope that shot 3 clean strings at 500 with 48 X's. That means that 48 of the 60 shots were under 2.5 inches. That's a good shooting gun but that is the best it has shot. And in that match Todd beat me by 2X's. Always someone out their with more skill, better equipment or having a better day. In the case of that match, Todd had all three but then a better day for him might have been even closer to 60 X's.

 

[338 Mollett]

What’s the minimum you require for your match rifle to compete at the highest levels

Put 5 in one inch at 300 and you will have a competitive rifle . Train with a .22 using subsonic ammo and you will be a competitive shooter .