MILs: Help a lifelong MOA guy understand

[HomeSlice]

Thanks in advance for looking.

I've been an MOA guy for the several decades I've been shooting. Until now, anyway. I just bought my first FFP scope, with Mil knobs and a Mildot reticle. FFP. MILs and the Mildot are all new to me, and I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.

This reticle is a lot more complex than I realized. I have a basic understanding of MILs, in that the math to convert them to MOA is not difficult. However, I want to take the conversion process out of my head, and learn to "think in MILs", if that makes any sense.

The FFP concept, of anways being in proportion, makes a lot of sense to me. I do have to admit that I find the reticle just turns into crosshairs at much less than max magnification, though.

I'm sure I'm not the first guy who's been through this. Can anyone recommend any videos, links to read, or post feedback here that you think might help an old fart MOA guy learn a new system the right way?

 

[BoydAllen]

A mil in your reticle spans a thousandth of the distance to the target. At 100 yards, 3,600 inches, that would be 3.6 inches. This can be used to calculate distance to target if you have a good idea of the size of the target, but of course your range estimate will only be as accurate as your estimation of the size of the target. For my money, a good laser rangefinder is vastly superior. The other use of a mil reticle is for holding over, and for that you can use ballistic software to generate a chart. If your scope turrets are in tenth mils then each click is worth .36 at 100 yards, .72 at 200 and so on. Once you know the mil values of the various features and spaces of your reticle and you have a chart telling you how many mils or fractions of a mil to hold for various distances you should be in good shape. Of course you can do the same thing for wind holds. This should give you some videos to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rifle+mils+
One of these circular calculators should be a big help if you want to use your scope to range distances.
https://www.google.com/search?clien...0j0i67j0i10i67j0i5i30j0i8i30j0i24.53W3Bbt18YA

 

[sawcarver]

In a few scopes the reticle does just look like crosshairs in the lowest powers. In talking with the guys who designed the SCR reticle in the Burris XTRII they said this was by design at 3x you really arent going to be using the reticle for any hold overs and a crosshair looking reticle works great. If you are shooting far enough to need the reticle you are going to turn the power up and be able to see all the fine details. I like FFP for hunting or shooting steel at random distances when timed. You can find your target zoom in and not worry about exactly what power you are on hold your wind and send it.

As far as mils go I'm not much help I'm an MOA guy sorry

 

[Milo 2.0]

Thanks in advance for looking.

I've been an MOA guy for the several decades I've been shooting. Until now, anyway. I just bought my first FFP scope, with Mil knobs and a Mildot reticle. FFP. MILs and the Mildot are all new to me, and I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.

This reticle is a lot more complex than I realized. I have a basic understanding of MILs, in that the math to convert them to MOA is not difficult. However, I want to take the conversion process out of my head, and learn to "think in MILs", if that makes any sense.

The FFP concept, of anways being in proportion, makes a lot of sense to me. I do have to admit that I find the reticle just turns into crosshairs at much less than max magnification, though.

I'm sure I'm not the first guy who's been through this. Can anyone recommend any videos, links to read, or post feedback here that you think might help an old fart MOA guy learn a new system the right way?

First, the standard mil dot reticle is the most limited of anything available, not trying to discourage you on the purchase, it's been useable for decades itself.
You want to get away from doing any conversions in your head while shooting, and use the reticle as the measuring tool, it makes it way easier. If you use the reticle for measuring and as the baseline, only the distance shot and your firing solution matters for the first shot. If you are off some, now use the reticle to gauge how far were you, was it .2mil low, and .4mil right, you will use the distance between the crosshair or dots to determine this, and being FFP, the measurement is linear across the distances you shoot.
With MOA, if you know distance, and target size, things click in your head rapidly when making adjustments, and it is easy really. With a mil reticle, using it as the ruler eliminates confusion converting numbers.
I hope I helped, there are guys that can explain better than I can. To me the key is to not overthink the changeover, you are not shooting moa with this scope, do not try.
Edit: I shoot with younger guys that do not understand either system and do quite well. They do not care in the least, they trust their reticle and their loads. Without the reticle, they cannot call a shot, and if you tell them their miss was 3" off the left side of a plate, it vaporlocks them right now, for now they have to measure for themselves and followup shots happen slower.

 

[boltfluter]

One thing that may help is to think of mils as being in 1/10 increments per mil, and moa as being in 1/4 increments per moa. Very basic stuff, but helps my brain wrap itself around the concept. Once you adapt your thinking it will become a very simple transition. Hope this helps. Have fun!!

Paul

 

[Ned Ludd]

Forget about units, forget about how many clicks, forget about the decimal system. You don't need any of that to understand either mils or moa. One milliradian (mil) is simply a larger angle than one minute of angle (MOA)...that's all there is to it. They are both nothing more than very tiny angles. A picture is supposed to be worth 1000 words. You may find these pictures help you grasp the concept a little better.

 

[sscoyote]

As mentioned above you really don't even have to know subtension math for downrange zeroing, just do it the exact same way you did with your MOA reticles. But now you use the mil column on ballistic programs instead of MOA. I really love the math and have made a short career out of studying it. The 2 most important things I've learned about subtension math is that the "mil-ranging" formula is not specific to the mil subtension unit, and that subtension is inversely proportional to magnification in SFP reticles. The practical application of these two concepts have proven very handy occasionally in the field. Fun stuff!

 

[JohnKielly]

Mils are really important if you want to participate in the latest build it & they will come event.

 

[Depart123]

If you were used to using your MOA scope by thinking in angles and making corrections in angles, then MILS is exactly the same. So basically, thinking like: "I missed by 1 MOA and I make a 1 MOA adjustment", is exactly the same as "I missed by 0.5 MILS so I make a 0.5MIL adjustment".

The problem is that most MOA guys think in linear measurements (i.e. I missed by about a foot...1 foot at X amount of yards equals X amount of MOA, therefore X amount of clicks). It doesn't have to be that way. It isn't the new unit of angular measurement that is hard to grasp, it is the new (to the shooter) way of thinking.

 

[hogpatrol]

Think in metric. It's a lot easier.

 

[XTR]

As noted in the post above mils are just like MOA, they are an angular measurement, just a different value, and they happen to divided in base 10 not base 60, and the increments on your scope will be in 0.1 not ¼ .

I use mils on all of my rifles except the ones that I shoot in NRA competitions where the target is laid out in MOA.

Now if you really need to think in conversions, like when I get surprised that one of the shooters in a pickup team is shooting a mil scope in F-TR, then you can remember that at distance one click on a .1 mil turret is equal to 0.314 (pi) moa. I almost never do it that way, but if you're trying to get a guy to dial over a ~minute on the target it's easier to remember and you have him go 3 clicks.

 

[Delfuego]

However, I want to take the conversion process out of my head, and learn to "think in MILs", if that makes any sense.

It's real easy. Stop converting anything! Use the MILs to correct for your MILs. You wouldn't use a metric tape measure to measure a board, then convert that to inches, then cut it would you? You would measure it in meters/centimeters/millimeters and then cut it right?

Use the MIL reticle to measure the target, and that's your "tape-measure". If you shoot and miss, measure the impact with your reticle and correct it. You missed a 1/10 left, correct a 1/10 and send another.

 

[rammac]

Thanks in advance for looking.

I've been an MOA guy for the several decades I've been shooting. Until now, anyway. I just bought my first FFP scope, with Mil knobs and a Mildot reticle. FFP. MILs and the Mildot are all new to me, and I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.

This reticle is a lot more complex than I realized. I have a basic understanding of MILs, in that the math to convert them to MOA is not difficult. However, I want to take the conversion process out of my head, and learn to "think in MILs", if that makes any sense.

The FFP concept, of anways being in proportion, makes a lot of sense to me. I do have to admit that I find the reticle just turns into crosshairs at much less than max magnification, though.

I'm sure I'm not the first guy who's been through this. Can anyone recommend any videos, links to read, or post feedback here that you think might help an old fart MOA guy learn a new system the right way?

I think you're overthinking it.

FFP just means that you don't have to worry about what magnification you're on when you want to estimate range or animal size (I don't use my scopes that way but some people do, I use a range finder).

Mildot reticle - what's so complex about it? I guess it depends on what reticle you have but even a christmas tree reticle is simply an extended set of stadia lines that help you offset for wind. Typically you don't even use them unless you're shooting at medium to long range.

Mils - like everyone says, don't worry about their subtention in inches, think of them as just lines, 10 little lines to 1 big line. If your impact is 3 little lines to the right then just aim 3 little lines to the left.

 

[Gary in MD]

Come back to MOA
New things are no good!! LOL

Gary

 

[NV_Dmax]

It's real easy. Stop converting anything! Use the MILs to correct for your MILs. You wouldn't use a metric tape measure to measure a board, then convert that to inches, then cut it would you? You would measure it in meters/centimeters/millimeters and then cut it right?

Use the MIL reticle to measure the target, and that's your "tape-measure". If you shoot and miss, measure the impact with your reticle and correct it. You missed a 1/10 left, correct a 1/10 and send another.

this

see your impact, hold your reticle on impact, read reticle, make adjustment, shoot.

 

[Geno C]

Here’s is a problem a lot of guys run into when going to MILs. The spotter. If a spotter is not calling corrections in MILs then you have to convert. Most guys don’t see misses in MILs; they see them in inches. If your spotter is calling in reference to target size, like “1/2 target high” then you measure with the reticle and dial, or just hold 3/4 target low. If you’re spotting for yourself through the scope or a person is spotting for you with a reticle. Then that make life much easier

 

[Joe Salt]

NV_Dmax No it's hold on the target click to the hit now back to the target!

Joe Salt

 

[shoot4fun]

this

see your impact, hold your reticle on impact, read reticle, make adjustment, shoot.

NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!!
Are you Polish?
Aim, shoot, spot hit.
Aim, turn reticle to to hit, shoot. Smile.

 

[NV_Dmax]

NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!!
Are you Polish?
Aim, shoot, spot hit.
Aim, turn reticle to to hit, shoot. Smile.

NV_Dmax No it's hold on the target click to the hit now back to the target!

Joe Salt

I take it you both shoot from your belly or the bench all the time?

 

[shoot4fun]

I take it you both shoot from your belly or the bench all the time?

Give someone the wrong info on the internet and get your feelings hurt when people try to keep others from using it?
Priceless.
Actually, the Polish comment was a personal joke. I have a great friend (name ends with "ski") that I tried teaching the way to quickly zero a scope. For the next 6 months every time he went to zero a scope he called me from the range to say that my instructions were not working. Yup, every time he was doing it by your method instead.