Military barrel 7X57 loading

[normmatzen]

I built a general purpose Mauser VZ24 based rifle and fitted a large ring 7X57 barrel in pretty good shape.

Then, I started loading to find a good load for the barrel. Not a lot of success.

I finally went back and looked at the chamber mold I made and was re-introduced to the "Mauser Way." First, the 7X57's were chambered for long, heavy round nosed 175gr military bullets so the chambers are long and fat to allow dirty, muddy bullets to chamber.

Well, my 140 gr hunting bullets didn't fare well. I was loading for MV of around 2800 to 2900fps and found that accuracy went off above 2800. I finally seated the bullets as long as the magazine would allow, almost 3.2" and started getting decent groups! I have purchased a box of Barnes TTSX which are long like the original 175gr bullets. The TTSX are 140 gr but are copper so must be longer than lead cored bullets. I'm going to the range with these this week.

My question;

Does anyone have any more intelligence to add to this subject? I can't be the only person stubbornly using a military 7X57 barrel! Then, maybe I am! In any case, it would be nice to put all we collectively have learned to a thread here on 6mmBR.

 

[jonbearman]

I took a brand new vz24 barrel on a german made mauser and the headspace was almost perfect.Now this is 8mm mauser were talking about but the thing shot 180 grain speer bullets like a lazer.My point is that the 7mm mauser is equally accurate if not more.Try the longest heaviest bullets that they shot and I am sure you will find a winning combo.If this barrel doesnt pan out ,then buy a midway short chambered adams&bennett barrel and screw it on and have a smith do the fitting from there.The 7's shoot real good if the ammo is prepped correctly.

 

[2506]

I finished up making a hunting rifle out of a Spanish Mauser in 7X57 that a friend on mine was given by his father. Someone broke into their house and stole it but threw it down and broke the stock off at the pistol grip area as they ran out of the house when they saw him driving into the drive way. It had the barrel chopped back to 22" and Williams sights put on the barrel and had the bolt handle turned down and had been hot blued really well. I made a new bolt handle to work with a scope and welded it on and drilled and tapped it and added a scope and made the old two stage trigger into a single stage adjustable trigger. I put it into a composite stock. It had a mint bore and 46 grs IMR 4350 with Hornady 154 gr SP Interlock bullets loaded to magazine length which I can't remember how long that was exactly but think it was 3.050" in Remington cases with CCI 200 primers was a tack driver. This is a great deer size game bullet for most any 7mm.

 

[benchracer]

Several years ago, I built a scout rifle using an FN 98 mauser receiver and a 19 1/2" military profile barrel in 7x57.

It shoots 175g Federal factory loads into 3/4" groups consistently. It did the same with handloads using Hornady 162g AMAX's.

Surprisingly, it shot a little better yet with Sierra 100g varminters.

Overall, I strongly suspect that rifle is capable of shooting very tight groups, but I am limited by the fact that I did not drill and tap the receiver for conventional scope mounting. The low power scout scope limits my precision @ 100 yards, so I will never know the true capability of the rifle. Still, the groups I have gotten with this rifle @ 100 yards amaze me.

 

[JFMorgan]

Norm,
My father's neighbor gave me a WWII Obendorff Mauser 8MM. The barrel was so bad I had a friend who is a great mauser smith replace the barrel with a new (unused) 7X57 military surplus barrel. Had it cut and crowned at 22" blued, tear drop bolt handle. The Mauser barrels have a looooong throat to supposedly reduce chamber pressure. Several gunclub members came up with loads using Hornady 154 gr. Round nose bullets which were surprisingly accurate. W 760 IMR 4350 etc produced great results. Kill deer like the hammer of Thor.

Jim

 

[Mauser007]

benchracer,
There is a FN Mauser 98, ordered by a Brasilian contract in 1922 for use by cavalry troops in 7x57, 19 1/2" barrel and a stock "English stile" - no pistol grip.
This rifle, despite be very different and short, shoots very well with bullets from 120 to 175 gr but with the 160 gr is extremely precise, 0.5 MOA.
Brasil has several Mausers, all of them originarily in 7x57 until the IIWW when many was rechambered to .30-06 following the allies.
The best Mauser for me are those of 1935 contract:
Obendorf, 7x57,24" barrel, superior metallurgic and a fine work.
A lot of then were solded for US brand new, in the wood boxes, as they came to Brasil in 1935. If you find one of them, I recommend you to buy.
No comparation with the k98: it is like compare a Mercedes S with a Honda Civic.

 

[RonAKA]

What you need is a long bullet to get out to the lands, while remaining about 1/2 in the neck, but a short nose, so it fits in the magazine. I find Sierra GameKings tend to be built that way. In the Berger line, the 150 grain classic hunter has a relatively short nose.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/pdf/Quick-Reference-Sheets.pdf

 

[Kurz]

Hornady InterLock Bullets 284 Caliber, 7mm, 175 Grain Round Nose #2855

This is the bullet I have recommended for anyone wishing to shoot original military barrels or original military chambers. It works first time, every time and is able to achieve decent accuracy based on the condition of the barrel, quality of the load and the ability of the shooter. When I load this bullet over a SAAMI spec charge of Re-16, I'm at nearly 2,750 fps. in a 29" military barrel which is enough for game out to 400 yards, approximately. Obviously this is not a long range bullet but is meant for hunting and use in these military chambers.

Regards.

 

[Laurie]

That (the 175gn RNSP Hornady) is the one I use in my DWM M1895 Chilean Mauser (long rifle, 29-inch barrel, copy of the '93 Spanish Mauser). A case-full of Lovex SO71 (what used to be Accurate-3100 some years back pre Western Powders buying Accurate Arms) gives me 2,350 fps, under 40,000 psi according to QuickLOAD and close to the original RNFMJ 7X57 nominal MV of 2,300 fps so it shoots pretty well to the original sights.

100 yards off the bench sees under two-inch 5-round groups with threes in a half-inch on occasions. Considering I have great trouble seeing rearsight, foresight, and aiming mark together, it's really amazing performance from a 120-year old service rifle.

On the range I can shoot reasonably well prone and sling to 500 yards until my eyes start to weaken, not to mention my arms. 600 yards sees occasional very good hits, also occasional misses usually low.

One thing to note though is that Hornady has discontinued this bullet.

 

[benchracer]

benchracer,
There is a FN Mauser 98, ordered by a Brasilian contract in 1922 for use by cavalry troops in 7x57, 19 1/2" barrel and a stock "English stile" - no pistol grip.
This rifle, despite be very different and short, shoots very well with bullets from 120 to 175 gr but with the 160 gr is extremely precise, 0.5 MOA.
Brasil has several Mausers, all of them originarily in 7x57 until the IIWW when many was rechambered to .30-06 following the allies.
The best Mauser for me are those of 1935 contract:
Obendorf, 7x57,24" barrel, superior metallurgic and a fine work.
A lot of then were solded for US brand new, in the wood boxes, as they came to Brasil in 1935. If you find one of them, I recommend you to buy.
No comparation with the k98: it is like compare a Mercedes S with a Honda Civic.

I have a soft spot for the old mausers. I always enjoy hearing about them. Thank you!

 

[benchracer]

Don't be afraid to try newer bullet designs in one of the old warhorses. I have had very good results with RL-22 and 160 Nosler Partitions, 162 AMAX/ELD-M, and Berger 168 Classic Hunters. In a '98 pattern Mauser, or a modern rifle, any of these can be pushed to 2700 fps from a 22" barrel at mild pressures.

The military barrels have the freebore and twist to take full advantage of newer powders and heavy bullets. With 175's like the Partition or Berger Elite Hunter, RL-26 is capable of elevating the performance of the 7x57 considerably, at reasonable pressure levels. Even loaded long, any of the bullets mentioned will easily fit in the 3.3" magazines common to the '98's.

 

[2506]

I have fooled with many of the old military rifles for many years and one thing I have found that really increases the accuracy of them is the use of a Lee Factory Crimp Die. As you know most of these rifles have throats a mile long because many were designed to shoot long heavy RN bullets. My theory is that these long bullets will hit the lands before the bullet base exits the case and retards the bullet movement for a split second and allows the pressure to rise to a specific point before moving on. The use of the Lee Factory Crimp Die does basically the same thing. It retards the bullets forward movement for that split second and allows pressure to build to that certain point before moving on. What ever that certain pressure point is creates a burn rate that produces best accuracy. You can check with benchrest accuracy nut shooters, and I say that with affection, and see just how much different neck tension on a bullet effects accuracy. All I know is from my experimenting I can take a lighter shorter bullet that has to jump a loooooog ways to the lands and use the Lee Factory Crimp Die and it shoots great. Load the same bullet the same way except do not use the Lee Factory Crimp Die and it shoots terrible.

 

[Kurz]

One thing to note though is that Hornady has discontinued this bullet.

That's why you lay in a good supply before any announcement of a product being discontinued. I can't tell you how many times I've found a combination of rifle, powder, bullet and case which works great, only to have the bullet or powder go on the discontinued/impossible to find list. No more.

Most bullet makers have abandoned the round nose bullet type in favor of the Spitzer and Spitzer/Boat Tail. Even some of the European makers have taken this route, although there are some modified round nose bullets made by RWS, the ID Classic, specifically for the traditional hunting cartridges so much more prevalent in Europe. Generally, we're left with searching the smaller, out-of-the-way-stores for their dwindling supplies of NOS.

Regards.

 

[Kalitrazescapee]

My old 95 custom...by me in fortuna high gunsmithing class 1975-76...has a dark bore mil barrel...the long heavy bullets group 2in..ok for deer...loaded to 2200 or so..works out to 300yds...same as other old calibers...I have other things for beating myself up and use twice the powder... I let it go. ( Dummy) but I loaded 50 gr of 4831 in a styer 98 Mauser