Midway seconds 77gr match bullets

[SecondsCount]

I got a box of 1000 nosler "seconds" a few years ago (77g 224) - They shot pretty damn well over the usual 24 grains of varget in an AR.

It seems like nosler sells more seconds than they do "firsts"

Yeah, they were quite the deal before 2020. I still have some but save them for hunting purposes, and run the SMK seconds in the AR.

 

[SSchnd]

I got a box of 1000 nosler "seconds" a few years ago (77g 224) - They shot pretty damn well over the usual 24 grains of varget in an AR.

It seems like nosler sells more seconds than they do "firsts"

You used to be able to do the club buy program and order a pallet. Obviously someone had to administer the club buy for all. There were times when known great shooters would get a batch of N77 that would not shoot groups but I still have some black n gold boxes on the shelf 77&80's I have not used up from known good lots.
I would agree on the they sell more seconds part.

Sadly the last club buy turned out to be a fiasco, took 1-2 years to get products and they hit us with price increases too. Never got all the products. I still like using the 69s and 52's at reduced course matches but I doubt I will be buying firsts or seconds anytime soon. They are pricing themselves out of the market IMHO.

 

[Thepng]

First post since joining this forum, but I just did an experiment on these factory 2nd 77’s from midway. Figured I’d share my results:

I measured the overall length of the bullets and saw the expected large variation in length. These are mostly taken as random pulls taken in sequence, but I did add a few more to include the more extreme examples of short and long.

Next, I loaded these into 50 new brass cases, cci primers, and the same load of Winchester staball match. I loaded 2 sets of 10 that were sorted to within .005” of each other in length, 2 sets of 10 that were unsorted and contained the full amount of length variation, and one last group of 10 that were selected on the lower 1/2 of variation (all bullets that measure under a half way point of the variation).

I shot these at 100 yards out of a WOA 20” rifle with scope over the bags as 10 shot groups. I haven’t done any detailed statistics on this, but I don’t think that there would be a significant difference between any hypothesis like sorted bullets are more accurate than unsorted. (And I don’t want to spend more time measuring / sorting to increase sample size).

Going forward, I think I’ll lock my calipers at the average length and use that to sort bullets into 2 groups. This won’t hurt accuracy at least, and makes the COL more consistent since I am magazine loading these.

If I start shooting longer range or become a better shot I will repeat since I bought A LOT of these factory 2nd bullets…

 

[jelenko]

I am curious if anyone has ordered the Creedmoor Match Grade HPBT. The website says they are first run and not second's. The BC is higher than the Sierra MK's. Are your groups any different than the Sierra? My 223 has a 1 in 8 twist.

I haven't used the 77 gr ABC bullets.

I'm currently using 69gr ones from RMR and getting acceptable results.

 

[Jeff Porter]

I have shot a bunch of these and believe they are 77 SMK seconds. I sorted them by BTO and have shot some outstanding groups with them in a gas match rifle. I also found a half a dozen 69 gr bullets in the bunch.

 

[MisterHelix]

Midway has these again, so I bought 500 and have burned through half of them. I haven’t sorted them or anything, nor have I found any unusual or deformed projectiles.

I’m just loading for reduced course service Rifle, so my precision needs may be below par, but they shot well enough to squeak out a 96.75%.

At 15¢ per I’d probably get more, but I’d like to move away from the 77’s since I’m dependent on sales or blems to keep them affordable.

 

[jelenko]

You might want to check out Rocky Mountain Reloading.
They have both 69 and 75 grain bullets. Several of us are using them for XTC matches.
So far, they are holding the X ring on the MR31.

 

[MisterHelix]

First post since joining this forum, but I just did an experiment on these factory 2nd 77’s from midway. Figured I’d share my results:

I measured the overall length of the bullets and saw the expected large variation in length. These are mostly taken as random pulls taken in sequence, but I did add a few more to include the more extreme examples of short and long.

Next, I loaded these into 50 new brass cases, cci primers, and the same load of Winchester staball match. I loaded 2 sets of 10 that were sorted to within .005” of each other in length, 2 sets of 10 that were unsorted and contained the full amount of length variation, and one last group of 10 that were selected on the lower 1/2 of variation (all bullets that measure under a half way point of the variation).

I shot these at 100 yards out of a WOA 20” rifle with scope over the bags as 10 shot groups. I haven’t done any detailed statistics on this, but I don’t think that there would be a significant difference between any hypothesis like sorted bullets are more accurate than unsorted. (And I don’t want to spend more time measuring / sorting to increase sample size).

Going forward, I think I’ll lock my calipers at the average length and use that to sort bullets into 2 groups. This won’t hurt accuracy at least, and makes the COL more consistent since I am magazine loading these.

If I start shooting longer range or become a better shot I will repeat since I bought A LOT of these factory 2nd bullets…

Thank you. This is what I needed to know. I’m using these midway 77 match seconds for reduced range xtc, and I’m trying to decide if it’s worth it to sort.

Looking at your results it might seem that sorting into “short” and “long” OAL is probably worthwhile.

 

[SecondsCount]

You might want to check out Rocky Mountain Reloading.
They have both 69 and 75 grain bullets. Several of us are using them for XTC matches.
So far, they are holding the X ring on the MR31.

While I have heard of XTC matches, I have never participated. A quick search shows that the MR31 target has a 0.75" diameter X ring.

Are the RMR 69 3GH shooting inside of this for you?

 

[MisterHelix]

While I have heard of XTC matches, I have never participated. A quick search shows that the MR31 target has a 0.75" diameter X ring.

Are the RMR 69 3GH shooting inside of this for you?

I don’t know about the rmr bullets, but since you mention target sizes I figured I’d post this chart I found.
You’d think a 1.75” ten ring would be cake, but perfection is always around another corner.

c) NRA No. MR-31 Reduction of the MR-I target to simulate the
600-yard stage of the National Match Course at 100 yards.
Aiming Black--(inches)
X ring----------.75
10 ring--------1.75
9 ring---------2.75
8 ring---------3.75
7 ring---------5.75

 

[SSchnd]

Thank you. This is what I needed to know. I’m using these midway 77 match seconds for reduced range xtc, and I’m trying to decide if it’s worth it to sort.

Looking at your results it might seem that sorting into “short” and “long” OAL is probably worthwhile.

If I were shooting short (reduced) XTC matches, and I do along with full course, but If I only shot 100-200 yd reduced matches I'd use 52/53 68/69 gr projectiles.
52 gr class bullets work fantastic at 100-200 matches I fire. I keep more 69's on hand though.
But as to the Midway second and time sorting. The last 500 I bought are sorted into 6 packages and not worth the effort of the $ shavings. I said it before here will not do it again. My buddy got a bunch a couple years ago and they shoot great, If I wanted to sort bullets I would be shooting BR or long range.

I first sorted by, Weight, are they 77;s cuz others will mix in, diameter and base to ogive.
Thats after culling several that had non formed boat tails.

I seat the Nosler and Hornday 52-53 and 68/69 to about 2.235 - 2.240 COAL. And no I do not get in the weeds about using the OAL of the bullet ( of a known good batch of firsts) to seat the 52/69 class.
Hornady 52 is a little more bulbous than my SMK77.
I have used 77 at mag length for 600, but usually role the 80-80.5 for long line.

 

[MisterHelix]

If I were shooting short (reduced) XTC matches, and I do along with full course, but If I only shot 100-200 yd reduced matches I'd use 52/53 68/69 gr projectiles.
52 gr class bullets work fantastic at 100-200 matches I fire. I keep more 69's on hand though.
But as to the Midway second and time sorting. The last 500 I bought are sorted into 6 packages and not worth the effort of the $ shavings. I said it before here will not do it again. My buddy got a bunch a couple years ago and they shoot great, If I wanted to sort bullets I would be shooting BR or long range.

I first sorted by, Weight, are they 77;s cuz others will mix in, diameter and base to ogive.
Thats after culling several that had non formed boat tails.

I seat the Nosler and Hornday 52-53 and 68/69 to about 2.235 - 2.240 COAL. And no I do not get in the weeds about using the OAL of the bullet ( of a known good batch of firsts) to seat the 52/69 class.
Hornady 52 is a little more bulbous than my SMK77.
I have used 77 at mag length for 600, but usually role the 80-80.5 for long line.

Thanks for the advice. I may see if midway will take a return on this 1k I have of the 77’s.

My club only hosts 100 yard matches, so that’s what I’m doing for now.

I think I’ll take your advice and try some of the 52 bthp’s, perhaps from creedmore.

 

[jelenko]

While I have heard of XTC matches, I have never participated. A quick search shows that the MR31 target has a 0.75" diameter X ring.

Are the RMR 69 3GH shooting inside of this for you?

I would say they 'hold' the X ring - which would include shots with the center of the impact < .12" away from the X ring.

 

[SSchnd]

Thanks for the advice. I may see if midway will take a return on this 1k I have of the 77’s.

My club only hosts 100 yard matches, so that’s what I’m doing for now.

I think I’ll take your advice and try some of the 52 bthp’s, perhaps from creedmore.

Yep, 53/53 Mtach from Hornady work as well as the Nosler 52 with sewer pipe meplats.
Hornady 68 and the Nosler and SMK 69 are great and beyond to 300.

Funny I have shot some great groups with Midway South's Varmit Nightmare.

PM me I could mail some of those to try out if you want. to try some spire point BT for 100 they are a very cost effective unit. I really liked the flat bases H53 match but make sure you use a good inside neck chamfer and guide them into the mouth when seating a flat base

 

[GetReal]

I regretted buying the ones I tried. About 2 years ago. Chucked 'em.

 

[MisterHelix]

I sent a thousand 77’s back to midway today. I’m glad they accepted the return.