Mid-Range Rule Sighter Question

[RDA72927]

Ok, I've been searching here and haven't found a CLEAR answer to my question. Yes, I've tried reading the Highpower F-Class section, no joy there either.

What is the rule on F-Class Mid-range sighers for Match 1?

I know match 2 & 3 are 2 sighters only. Every where I have shot has be Unlimited (or a Fouling period) on Match 1, but shooting at a new range (NRA Approved Match) that is only allowing 2 sighters on Match 1. Just a little confused? Are both right and it's a director's choice? Planned on taking some folks new to 600 yard (they've shot some 300 yard) but can't go because that haven't joined the NRA yet, only NRA member's allowed.

Robert

 

[Erud]

I’ve never been to a mid range match with unlimited sighters. Sometimes a fouling period with no targets up, but always 2 sighters. Section 17.5 of the NRA highpower rule book spells out when unlimited sighters can be allowed.

 

[coford]

I have been to MANY NRA Approved 600 yard matches that allowed unlimited sighters. I have also been to NRA Approved 600 yard matches that allowed unlimited sighters on the first string and 2 sighters per string after that. I shot in a State Championship that only allowed 4 sighters on the first string and then two after that. I shot in a Mid Range Regional last year that allowed unlimited sighters for all strings. If I remember right at BSN last year we had a two minute blow off and then two sighters per string - but I'm not positive. So I would recommend reading the match program and just follow what they tell you.

 

[Ringostar]

I used to be from the same area as Erud. Yes in the upper Midwest all 600 matches are strictly 2 sighters. In other areas they shoot unlimited on the first string. I've been at matches that listed unlimited to start in the program, then there was a large discussion before shooting started. They changed it to a blow off period, then 2 sighters. The discussion was brought up saying that if you allow more than 2 sighters, those scores will not count toward a national record.

 

[skiutah02]

I used to be from the same area as Erud. Yes in the upper Midwest all 600 matches are strictly 2 sighters. In other areas they shoot unlimited on the first string. I've been at matches that listed unlimited to start in the program, then there was a large discussion before shooting started. They changed it to a blow off period, then 2 sighters. The discussion was brought up saying that if you allow more than 2 sighters, those scores will not count toward a national record.

My understanding is this^

 

[Erud]

That’s what the rule book says, not eligible for national records with unlimited sighters. Now that you guys mention it, I do remember the 600 at the 2017 SWN listing unlimited sighters in the program, then Mid changing it to 2 sighters in the morning of the match for that very reason.

Personally, I wouldn’t mind if they changed it to 2 convertible sighters for matches at all yard lines. I’ll shoot a bunch of sighters sometimes when they’re allowed, but limiting it to 2 would really go a long way towards getting shooters to make sure their equipment is squared away.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Unless it's a "Registered" match, it's not eligible for a National Record. In most of the places I've shot MR matches that had unlimited sighters in the 1st match, the matches were "Approved", so the number of sighters didn't really matter anyhow.

 

[BillHocker]

Let's start another pissing contest and eventually we'll eliminate all older shooters until the game dies.

 

[corning]

Let's start another pissing contest and eventually we'll eliminate all older shooters until the game dies.

And just how does a 2 sighter shot limit eliminate older shooters?

 

[Erud]

Let's start another pissing contest and eventually we'll eliminate all older shooters until the game dies.

I’m not sure I understand where you are going with this. Are you sayng that older shooters wouldn’t be capable of keeping a rifle zeroed for some reason, and therefore would quit the sport if they weren’t allowed unlimited sighters for mid range?

Heck, I’m not even suggesting that they change the rule, I just said that I wouldn’t mind. And you’re already prepared to give up the sport over it.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Unless he's bemoaning how many varied responses there are to a [relatively] simple Rules question, I don't get the comment either. If that WAS the point, I understand...IMO - far too many threads here seem to turn into the most ridiculous pissing contests you can possibly imagine. However, I really didn't feel this post was one of them.

 

[Damfino]

When I'm shooting, I really like unlimited sighters. But, when I'm pulling targets I really like 2 sighters. No doubt it speeds matches up and encourages a higher level of preparedness and attentiveness.

 

[jr600yd]

Here’s another way to look at it. Read the match Program! When a match is developed it’s sent to the NRA for approval. If needed the NRA will suggest any changes needed. If the program is approved by the NRA (such as the # of sighters or relays) the NRA has waived that rule. Also match directors have great leeway in running a match. An example is in XTC matches. Nowhere in the rules does it say you must shoot 200 then 300 then 600 yds in that order. The rules say you must fire 20 rounds for record at each stage. So, you could wind up shooting 600 yds first then 200 and 300 last.

In FLA and Texas unlimited sighters on the first relay is common. Read the Match Program.

 

[Erud]

Here’s another way to look at it. Read the match Program! When a match is developed it’s sent to the NRA for approval. If needed the NRA will suggest any changes needed. If the program is approved by the NRA (such as the # of sighters or relays) the NRA has waived that rule.

I'm not sure that that's a safe assumption. If the NRA approves a match program that allows unlimited sighters for a 600-yard match, that does not negate the rule about only 2 sighters being allowed for national records to be set in 600 yard matches. That was the reason for the change in the 600 yard matches at the 2017 SWN. Someone pointed out to the match director that any record scores shot during that match would not be recognized if unlimited sighters were allowed. They changed the COF on the morning of the match so that any record set would be recognized, otherwise they wouldn't have been. The program with unlimited sighters was approved by the NRA as written, even though this issue would have inevitably come up if someone had set a record. The same would go for matches in FL and TX if someone shoots a national record score at 600 in a match with unlimited sighters. That's not my opinion, it's what the rule book says.

Keep in mind that the NRA competitions department is generally made up of a whole 1-2 people. The current 1-2 people in the department don't even come from a HP background, and don't seem all that interested in the sport. You are fooling yourself if you think they are going over every match program that gets sent in with a copy of the HP rulebook open in front of them to check for errors.

 

[kzin]

Is a separate event for sighters always ok?

ex
5 minutes unlimited sighters
<break>
20 minutes, 20 shots for record and 2 optional sighters


Maybe that's more common in walk and paste?

 

[dcali]

This goes in the "I don't care" bucket for me. If everyone's shooting the same course, I'm fine. I don't care one bit about national (or any other) record, which is by definition a fluke in the right direction. Fun, but not very interesting.

Lots of sighters on the first match is probably best in my opinion - some rifles have a nasty cold bore warm up, and others don't. My current barrel takes a full 4 shots to settle in, so I have to show up early and shoot some foulers, or not clean it. My last barrel was dead on from shot 1.

 

[jr600yd]

Records have been set in registered matches with unlimited sighters n the first string.

 

[Erud]

Records have been set in registered matches with unlimited sighters n the first string.

I'd never argue that that hasn't happened, only that it shouldn't happen; at least if you are someone who believes in following the rules of the sport. In a department staffed by only 1 or 2 people, it's pretty easy for errors to be made and things to get missed. If a match director sends in a national record form stating that someone at their match fired a national record, it is the MD's responsibility to make sure that the score they fired was done so under the NRA HP rules governing the shooting of national records. If the MD sends in a national record to NRA saying that everything was done correctly, the NRA Competitions department has no way of knowing otherwise.

I could submit a match program that allowed shooters to nullify and re-shoot shots in the middle of a string if they didn't like them, and there's a good chance the understaffed NRA Competitions Department would rubber-stamp the program. If I did that, I bet we could set all kinds of national records at our next match. The reporting form for national records doesn't ask questions about stuff like that, it is assumed that the match was fired under NRA rules.

Again, I'm not arguing an opinion here. I am just pointing out what's in the rule book.

 

[Immike]

A 2 min foul-in is the recommended procedure now. This can be done on the dirt or targets, MD choice. After that with the targets down and cleaned up the match can begin with a 2 sighter relay. I witnessed the record breaking score that got this clarified (2016)

 

[skibar_tx]

If you look at the NRA's rule changes effective 2017, they do state that unlimited sighters are now permissible for 600 yd prone slow fire. And I do know of a record string that was shot at 600 yds with unlimited sighters that the NRA accepted and the shooter was awarded national record recognition.