Have any of you AR shooters had your barrel Melonited? My question is, does having the barrel Melonited diminish the erosion of the gas port area in your barrel? I am thinking of having a Krieger barrel done by CLE and then have it Melonited in hopes of reducing the gas port erosion I'm seeing in my current unmelonited barrel.
Melonite QPQ AR Barrel
- Thread starter Pawnee Bill
- Start date
butchlambert
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Check with Bamban on this forum. I use him now and he is also the AR chamber guy for the Texas State Junior Service Rifle team and smithed some of the barrels used in the winning Texas State team breaking the old team record at Camp Perry a couple years ago.
AND LETS KNOW WHAT HE SAYS
butchlambert
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Related question, what is the best benefit of melonite on an AR barrel, the increased barrel life (sustained accuracy also) or less port erosion?
At what point does port erosion affect accuracy or does barrel lose accuracy before port erosion is bad enough?
I thinking of rebarreling 3 ARs with melonited barrels and maybe having 3 spares to get better price in the long run.
At what point does port erosion affect accuracy or does barrel lose accuracy before port erosion is bad enough?
I thinking of rebarreling 3 ARs with melonited barrels and maybe having 3 spares to get better price in the long run.
I think Krieger is against meloniting. Check with them.
butchlambert
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Best BR barrel that I ever had was a Krieger that was Melonited.
Remember, when you get your barrel back from Melonite, submerge it in water for 24hrs and then scrub and JB it. Some of the Melonite folks do not clean them after treatment.
I'm curious if you asked Krieger their opinion.? I actually am in favor of meloniting but when i asked Krieger they said not a good idea.
Just PM'd him so hopefully he will chime in soon.
butchlambert
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I didn't ask them. It was still a good 6ppc barrel after 5,000 rounds. Where is it now? That is a long story.
You effectively double the life of the barrel in most regards.
Far more effective on carbon steel than stainless steel. In fact when done in bulk you can take carbon steel and achieve more durability and corrosion resistance in some applications that with SS far cheaper than actual stainless steel. This is especialy true with the garbage 416R used in firearm industry. 416R is about extending tooling life and reducing match grade barrel losses because it machines much easier and more consistent than 4140/4150 carbon steel.
The more barrels that end up as "Select Match" the greater the profit margin.
Look at the steel specifications from the companies that make 4140/4150 and 416R as used in ordnance the 416R can not take as much heat, pressure, abrasion, cold etc.....The steel companies are honest beyond doubt about the specifications of steel unlike barrel makers! 416R does not work harden like 4140 can in use. This makes doing a set back much easier as well and that used to be popular years ago. It is not as popular today as it was today top competitor pitch a barrel and put a new one on at the drop of a dime.
SS makes perfect sense if your goal as a barrel maker is to produce as many highly accurate barrels as possible and to extend tooling life! For the average shooter and non-BR competitor SS makes no sense at all if you have to pay a $100 or more premium for it because you are not getting an extra $100 worth of utility. If it was the way to go machine gun barrels would be exclusively hammer forged from 416R as well as artillery and tank barrels etc...
Cold Hammer Forging produces a barrel with 3x-5x the accurate life expectancy of button rifled barrel. So if you want the most life out of a barrel CHF is the way to go as proven by the US Army and the M24 and the 20,000 round accuracy requirement in 7,62 NATO. I think could get as much as you are going to get from a CHF 4150 or better chromolly steel that has been fully machined then nitrocarburized with the process of your choice inside and out.
If you want to increase your chances of peak accuracy a 416R barrel made either with button rifling or cut rifling with zero additional treatments is the way to go. That does not guarantee that you will see a measurable result but that is the best you can hope for. Every additional step or process you add can add in an additional unknown or variable to the outcome. When you look at those BR guys you quickly see they like 416R button rifled barrels with no additional treatments and prefer Lija and Ed Shilen barrels.
I trust the steel mills more than barrel makers when it comes to characteristics of steel.
If the SS being used did not have so much sulfur in it I would not be so anti SS but if it did not have the "R" then barrel makers and OEM's would not use it because real stainless steels that are supior to 41XX steels are hard on tooling and do not machine as well or quickly and would produce more loss! Outside of the USA you have a lot more choices. CZ alone offers last I checked 5 or 7 different alloys for barrel. You can select from steels with more silicone, manganese and nickle in them.
https://www.ibccoatings.com/melonite-qpq
https://www.burlingtoneng.com/melonite-processing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing
Far more effective on carbon steel than stainless steel. In fact when done in bulk you can take carbon steel and achieve more durability and corrosion resistance in some applications that with SS far cheaper than actual stainless steel. This is especialy true with the garbage 416R used in firearm industry. 416R is about extending tooling life and reducing match grade barrel losses because it machines much easier and more consistent than 4140/4150 carbon steel.
The more barrels that end up as "Select Match" the greater the profit margin.
Look at the steel specifications from the companies that make 4140/4150 and 416R as used in ordnance the 416R can not take as much heat, pressure, abrasion, cold etc.....The steel companies are honest beyond doubt about the specifications of steel unlike barrel makers! 416R does not work harden like 4140 can in use. This makes doing a set back much easier as well and that used to be popular years ago. It is not as popular today as it was today top competitor pitch a barrel and put a new one on at the drop of a dime.
SS makes perfect sense if your goal as a barrel maker is to produce as many highly accurate barrels as possible and to extend tooling life! For the average shooter and non-BR competitor SS makes no sense at all if you have to pay a $100 or more premium for it because you are not getting an extra $100 worth of utility. If it was the way to go machine gun barrels would be exclusively hammer forged from 416R as well as artillery and tank barrels etc...
Cold Hammer Forging produces a barrel with 3x-5x the accurate life expectancy of button rifled barrel. So if you want the most life out of a barrel CHF is the way to go as proven by the US Army and the M24 and the 20,000 round accuracy requirement in 7,62 NATO. I think could get as much as you are going to get from a CHF 4150 or better chromolly steel that has been fully machined then nitrocarburized with the process of your choice inside and out.
If you want to increase your chances of peak accuracy a 416R barrel made either with button rifling or cut rifling with zero additional treatments is the way to go. That does not guarantee that you will see a measurable result but that is the best you can hope for. Every additional step or process you add can add in an additional unknown or variable to the outcome. When you look at those BR guys you quickly see they like 416R button rifled barrels with no additional treatments and prefer Lija and Ed Shilen barrels.
I trust the steel mills more than barrel makers when it comes to characteristics of steel.
If the SS being used did not have so much sulfur in it I would not be so anti SS but if it did not have the "R" then barrel makers and OEM's would not use it because real stainless steels that are supior to 41XX steels are hard on tooling and do not machine as well or quickly and would produce more loss! Outside of the USA you have a lot more choices. CZ alone offers last I checked 5 or 7 different alloys for barrel. You can select from steels with more silicone, manganese and nickle in them.
https://www.ibccoatings.com/melonite-qpq
https://www.burlingtoneng.com/melonite-processing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
I believe that you may be a little out of touch. You need to check the equip list of the top finishers. A hammer forged barrel "may" last longer than a button or cut barrel, but they shoot like Schiff. I believe LW made or makes a barrel they call LW50 which I think machines like a PH steel. Tough, but I've never seen a winner.
Side note. I shot my 22-250 /8twist today just to raise the point of impact 1.99" above aiming point, because 2"" is too much Ha ha. 70 grain accubond with 36-R17. WoW is it good. I chronographed it so as to figure trajectory and i got a big surprise at the speed- 3550 fps, corrected. WoW.
PB,
Here is the borescope shot of the gas port. The barrel is Shilen 416R SS 8T Ratchet that was melonited. I pulled it out last year before my buddy went to Camp Perry. The barrel had 10,741 rounds though it. His last 600 yard match was 198 - 8 or 10X, not sure which now. He got burned for the wind with that 8.
you cut a nice port..is that reamed ??
Thank you for the kind words.
Yes, drilled with 2mm carbide drill and finished with carbide reamer
I knew there was a reason I bought reamers and drills
Thanks Bamban. Who do you use for Meloniting?
Following this because I'd like to learn where to get barrels Melonited, too. Back when I first heard of this on barrels I was familiar with it because we used it in the automotive industry. We referred to it as the Kolene process. I contacted an outfit near me that was already doing barrels in large batches and the pricing for one or a small batch was cost prohibitive (in other words they weren't interested in small batches).
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