Measurement on 6mm Berger VLD needed

[fatelvis]

I'm trying to figure what bullet would be best for my abnormally short throated 6mm Creedmore, and measured the Berger 105 Hybrid from base to Ogive, .670" and the Hornady 108 ELD, .716". I figure the VLD will allow more of the bullet to "penetrate" into the bore before hitting the lands, allowing a more normal OAL to my finished cartridge. Can anyone provide me with the base to ogive measurement of the Berger 105 VLD or any other Berger 6mm VLDs? Thanks so much!

 

[newbieshooter]

I'm trying to figure what bullet would be best for my abnormally short throated 6mm Creedmore, and measured the Berger 105 Hybrid from base to Ogive, .670" and the Hornady 108 ELD, .716". I figure the VLD will allow more of the bullet to "penetrate" into the bore before hitting the lands, allowing a more normal OAL to my finished cartridge. Can anyone provide me with the base to ogive measurement of the Berger 105 VLD or any other Berger 6mm VLDs? Thanks so much!

Based on tools I have:

• Berger 105 Hybrid: .671
• Berger 105 Target VLD: .635

 

[shoot4fun]

I'm trying to figure what bullet would be best for my abnormally short throated 6mm Creedmore, and measured the Berger 105 Hybrid from base to Ogive, .670" and the Hornady 108 ELD, .716". I figure the VLD will allow more of the bullet to "penetrate" into the bore before hitting the lands, allowing a more normal OAL to my finished cartridge. Can anyone provide me with the base to ogive measurement of the Berger 105 VLD or any other Berger 6mm VLDs? Thanks so much!

Just curious, but are you loading 6 Creedmoor for a Ruger Precision Rifle?

 

[fatelvis]

Based on tools I have:

• Berger 105 Hybrid: .671
• Berger 105 Target VLD: .635

Thank you so much Newbie.

Just curious, but are you loading 6 Creedmoor for a Ruger Precision Rifle?

Yes Shoot, it is for a RPR. Is yours ultra short throated also?

 

[dnellans]

i recently have found myself in an identical position with a RPR and have been struggling. i thought my measurement to the lands had to be wrong it was so short but i’ve now convinced myself i’m not crazy.

using 108 eld’s seated to coal 2.79 i have found that i am jamming them .19 into the lands (that’s right, not .019). to get .01 off the lands i have to seat to coal 2.59 which puts a somewhat rediculous amount of bearing surface below the neck/shoulder junction. based on some math and looking at land marks on the bullets it looks like i’ve got .040 freebore.... is that what you guys are finding also?

i’ve done some minor load development at that depth but it’s so far into the case i just don’t have any condfidence in it. i bought some nosler 105 rdf’s and they are in approximately the same boat needing a 2.577 coal to get off.

i’ve got some sierra 107’s coming but i’m really waiting on someone to have berger hybrids back in stock which might be the only hope. i don’t really want to send it back to ruger and have it re-throated on a factory barrel...

 

[shoot4fun]

Thank you so much Newbie.

Yes Shoot, it is for a RPR. Is yours ultra short throated also?

I don't own a RPR but, from reading a few forums, your issue seems to be prevalent with that particular rifle/caliber combo.
To me, a short throat in a factory built rifle is not the normal. Most factory throats are vey long, providing room for all brands of ammo and (my thought) helping to keep pressures in check on factory ammo.

 

[shoot4fun]

i recently have found myself in an identical position with a RPR and have been struggling. i thought my measurement to the lands had to be wrong it was so short but i’ve now convinced myself i’m not crazy.

using 108 eld’s seated to coal 2.79 i have found that i am jamming them .19 into the lands (that’s right, not .019). to get .01 off the lands i have to seat to coal 2.59 which puts a somewhat rediculous amount of bearing surface below the neck/shoulder junction. based on some math and looking at land marks on the bullets it looks like i’ve got .040 freebore.... is that what you guys are finding also?

i’ve done some minor load development at that depth but it’s so far into the case i just don’t have any condfidence in it. i bought some nosler 105 rdf’s and they are in approximately the same boat needing a 2.577 coal to get off.

i’ve got some sierra 107’s coming but i’m really waiting on someone to have berger hybrids back in stock which might be the only hope. i don’t really want to send it back to ruger and have it re-throated on a factory barrel...

Have you even contacted Ruger about this? Can you even close the bolt over on a factory loaded 108 ELD-M? It would be interesting to know if you and @fatelvis have guns built near the same time. Maybe there was an error in CNC tape or some pat of the barrel install that was incorrect for a time?
I'm all for minimal throats but what you guys are dealing with is not correct.

 

[rwj]

Using the Hornady 3-24 insert, bullet BTO offsets below...

• Berger (24429) 105gr VLD target ~ .642”
• Berger (24433) 105gr hybrid target ~ .659”

 

[dnellans]

i haven’t contacted ruger yet but i prob should when i get back from travel. i thought i was going crazy for weeks measuring on the bench.

mine will drive a factory 108 eld cartridge so far into the lands that if you unchamber without firing it will pull the bullet from the cartridge. i figured it was just a burr initially and 50 rounds later it would be fine, but at 100 now it seems clear it’s just a ridiculously short throat?

 

[fatelvis]

My RPR has almost an identical throat. Mine is .16” jam on factory ammo. I’m selling my 3-1/2 boxes of factory ammo and only loading Berger 105 Hybrids to an OAL of 2.7” and they are .020 off the lands.

 

[dnellans]

this makes me feel a little bit better that it’s not just me, though you gotta wonder why Ruger is making them this short (or it's an error).

where is the base of the bullet relative to neck/shoulder junction at 2.70 coal?

based on your measurements, when 105 hybrids ever come back in stock again i should be able to at least get to 2.65-2.66 COAL which does seem more reasonable

i actually ordered a tubb final finish kit too. i’ve always thought they were snake oil but since i want the lands to move anyway... $35 is probably cheaper than shipping to/from ruger

now if only i could find some hybrids

 

[fatelvis]

It’s unbelievable how similar we are thinking! I was going to buy the final finish kit also, for the same reason. The full bearing surface is still above the shoulder Junction, and only the boat tail dips into the powder space.

 

[fatelvis]

Have you even contacted Ruger about this? Can you even close the bolt over on a factory loaded 108 ELD-M? It would be interesting to know if you and @fatelvis have guns built near the same time. Maybe there was an error in CNC tape or some pat of the barrel install that was incorrect for a time?
I'm all for minimal throats but what you guys are dealing with is not correct.

Actually, I did call Ruger and discuss the situation with two different technicians. I agree, they are not a normal length throat by any means. They said they definitely wanted to see the rifle, but I explained that I just started F class that day, and couldn’t afford to have the rifle out of my hands.