"Match Grade" lead-free bullets?

[mensajd]

Starting next week, all hunting (including varmints) bullets used in CA will have to be lead-free.

In anticipation of this change, I tried Hornady and Nosler ammo in .223 and .204R respectively, and they weren't nearly as accurate as their leaded counterparts. In addition, I tried precision loading some of the 35gr .224 Hornady NTX bullets and could not get them to group (5-rounds) much better than ~1" whereas my normal handloads using Berger 52gr bullets will routinely shoot ten rounds in under .75" (heavy barrel WOA AR). So I got a little frustrated and put this project aside.

It's not an option to ignore this project any more, so I thought I'd tap the collective wisdom here before I restarted. Any of you have good luck with accurate, lead-free varmint bullets in .204, .224, or .243 calibers? Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[spclark]

Sticking my neck out here with voicing a thought about how lead-free bullets, of a weight equal to that of our lead-cored favorites, will have to be longer (owing to the economically viable choices for core materials having lower densities) thus requiring faster rifling twist rates for dependable stability.

Barrels currently in use likely won't produce the best accuracy when lead-free projectiles are being used given the altered ballistic character of these new bullets when compared to what's been used up until the rules changed.

There have been monolithic bullets (machined from solid materials, usually copper-based alloys) for some time now. Their manufacturers universally recommend bore twist rates faster than what are recommended for lead-cored bullets of similar weights.

 

[pacificman]

I agree with spclark and will add that if you can push them a bit faster you may get more accurate results. A friend of
mine with his .204 decided to push a 26 grain lead free Hornady bullet at over 4100 fps. with very good results. Nice
tight groups under half inch at 100 yards. To get some of these non-lead bullets to shoot accurately you may have to
go down in bullet weight then push them very fast for accuracy.

 

[X-Caveman]

On the pricier side for high volume shooting, but...
https://hammerbullets.com/shop/

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

Starting next week, all hunting (including varmints) bullets used in CA will have to be lead-free.

In anticipation of this change, I tried Hornady and Nosler ammo in .223 and .204R respectively, and they weren't nearly as accurate as their leaded counterparts. In addition, I tried precision loading some of the 35gr .224 Hornady NTX bullets and could not get them to group (5-rounds) much better than ~1" whereas my normal handloads using Berger 52gr bullets will routinely shoot ten rounds in under .75" (heavy barrel WOA AR). So I got a little frustrated and put this project aside.

It's not an option to ignore this project any more, so I thought I'd tap the collective wisdom here before I restarted. Any of you have good luck with accurate, lead-free varmint bullets in .204, .224, or .243 calibers? Thanks in advance for your help.

98 times out of a hundred it's the powder, when i first started shooting copper bullet's the first four powders were horrid and i thought that they were just not up to par. Then the fifth powder cut a great cloverleaf. I have never stopped hunting with them once i figured it out.

 

[dolek]

98 times out of a hundred it's the powder, when i first started shooting copper bullet's the first four powders were horrid and i thought that they were just not up to par. Then the fifth powder cut a great cloverleaf. I have never stopped hunting with them once i figured it out.

Can you share the powders and bullets involved please ? I used Barnes x-bullets when they first came out and had great results on White tailed deer in the .223 . Have been considering revisiting them again.

 

[terrace]

Both my 204's shoot well with 26 grain varmint grenades and benchmark

 

[BoydAllen]

For me, and a friend, the Nosler lead free have shot fine, but if you are lazy about load development, your results may vary. You have to pick a weight of lead free by the length that your twist will allow, and pick your powder by the bullet weight. A friend has a custom .222 with a 14 twist barrel, and with the 35 gr NLBTs (BC .201) and LT 30 he gets unreal velocity, excellent accuracy, and excellent terminal performance. Originally he worked up a load with the bullet at solid touch, with A22230 and no brake, and then to be able to see his hits with a very light hold he put one of his brakes on it. That destroyed his tune. Not wanting to change his powder load, he decided to play with seating depth, shooting two shot tests increasing jump by .010 per test. When he got to .080 jump one hole cut the other. Later when he changed to LT30, he redid the test and found tune at a higher velocity with a jump of around .060. Most guys would not have taken the test as far as he did.

 

[mensajd]

The point about choosing a bullet length/weight suitable for the barrel twist is well taken (and a given). But the manufacturing tolerance for target bullets are usually tighter than for hunting/varmint bullets (e.g., sierra mk vs bk). Think I will try the Flat Line 6mm mono bullets next. They seem to be manufactured to tight tolerances, though they probably aren’t especially frangible on small targets. Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[Larryh128]

For me, and a friend, the Nosler lead free have shot fine, but if you are lazy about load development, your results may vary. You have to pick a weight of lead free by the length that your twist will allow, and pick your powder by the bullet weight. A friend has a custom .222 with a 14 twist barrel, and with the 35 gr NLBTs (BC .201) and LT 30 he gets unreal velocity, excellent accuracy, and excellent terminal performance. Originally he worked up a load with the bullet at solid touch, with A22230 and no brake, and then to be able to see his hits with a very light hold he put one of his brakes on it. That destroyed his tune. Not wanting to change his powder load, he decided to play with seating depth, shooting two shot tests increasing jump by .010 per test. When he got to .080 jump one hole cut the other. Later when he changed to LT30, he redid the test and found tune at a higher velocity with a jump of around .060. Most guys would not have taken the test as far as he did.

I would agree, most copper bullets shoot very well, but most don't like to be jammed. I shoot a lot of Barnes and really see no difference in accuracy between them and Bergers. Only seating depth changes.

 

[mauritz45]

GS custom bullets, now owned by Lehigh the Cheytac folks ( I believe) makes monometal from 17cal on up.
Their website is still up gscustombulletsusa.com and their load data for the HV hunting bullets is still available.

 

[BoydAllen]

I would agree, most copper bullets shoot very well, but most don't like to be jammed. I shoot a lot of Barnes and really see no difference in accuracy between them and Bergers. Only seating depth changes.

The Noslers are jacket and core with plastic tip, not solid copper or alloy.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

Can you share the powders and bullets involved please ? I used Barnes x-bullets when they first came out and had great results on White tailed deer in the .223 . Have been considering revisiting them again.

Yes, 7mm magnum 110ttsx about 75 grn's R22. Also 308, 110ttsx about 56grn's cfe223 powder. 3006, 110ttsx about 68 grn's hunter powder or 58 grn's tac powder. 270 win. 85 grn tsx, max 64 grn's R17 =3900fps. 300 win mag. 110ttsx R17 about 83 grn's or hunter powder at up to 90 grn's this is from barnes load data . i suggest you double check and look at barnes load data for safety. Ps, i always seem to get best accuracy at max loads. And i always use the lightest barnes bullet for each caliber. There is no need for heavy barnes bullet's because the lightest ones work perfectly and always exit even at 300 yards+

 

[dolek]

Yes, 7mm magnum 110ttsx about 75 grn's R22. Also 308, 110ttsx about 56grn's cfe223 powder. 3006, 110ttsx about 68 grn's hunter powder or 58 grn's tac powder. 270 win. 85 grn tsx, max 64 grn's R17 =3900fps. 300 win mag. 110ttsx R17 about 83 grn's or hunter powder at up to 90 grn's this is from barnes load data . i suggest you double check and look at barnes load data for safety. Ps, i always seem to get best accuracy at max loads. And i always use the lightest barnes bullet for each caliber. There is no need for heavy barnes bullet's because the lightest ones work perfectly and always exit even at 300 yards+

Thanks for the info . I noticed people do mention going on the light side with the bullets and jacking up the speed .Think I will go that route.

 

[best defense]

Sticking my neck out here with voicing a thought about how lead-free bullets, of a weight equal to that of our lead-cored favorites, will have to be longer (owing to the economically viable choices for core materials having lower densities) thus requiring faster rifling twist rates for dependable stability.

Barrels currently in use likely won't produce the best accuracy when lead-free projectiles are being used given the altered ballistic character of these new bullets when compared to what's been used up until the rules changed.

There have been monolithic bullets (machined from solid materials, usually copper-based alloys) for some time now. Their manufacturers universally recommend bore twist rates faster than what are recommended for lead-cored bullets of similar weights.

************************************************************************

This all makes total sense. Using a different less dense material should make a difference in how all the parts come together. Even if you could use tungsten, (which would be heavy enough) it would be difficult to make into a bullet, so people are using things like copper, brass and combinations of different metals to machine bullets with a lathe. What we need is some smart engineer to figure out what is needed to make the new bullets stable in flight. Trial and error is taking too long. Twist rates faster than 1:7 seem to be what is required, but getting a twist rate faster than that seems to be close to impossible. I know there must be a barrel maker somewhere that can do it. Any suggestions would be helpful.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

Thanks for the info . I noticed people do mention going on the light side with the bullets and jacking up the speed .Think I will go that route.

Also look at the load data from powder manufacturers compared to barnes's data as sometimes they differ and show higher or lower max charge's.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I agree with spclark and will add that if you can push them a bit faster you may get more accurate results. A friend of
mine with his .204 decided to push a 26 grain lead free Hornady bullet at over 4100 fps. with very good results. Nice
tight groups under half inch at 100 yards. To get some of these non-lead bullets to shoot accurately you may have to
go down in bullet weight then push them very fast for accuracy.

This is spot on! I'm getting .25" groups in my 22 Hornet using Hornady 35 gr NTX bullet driven to 3000 fps. I tested 30 gr Varmint grenades but didn't get the accuracy of the NTX.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

Sticking my neck out here with voicing a thought about how lead-free bullets, of a weight equal to that of our lead-cored favorites, will have to be longer (owing to the economically viable choices for core materials having lower densities) thus requiring faster rifling twist rates for dependable stability.

Barrels currently in use likely won't produce the best accuracy when lead-free projectiles are being used given the altered ballistic character of these new bullets when compared to what's been used up until the rules changed.

There have been monolithic bullets (machined from solid materials, usually copper-based alloys) for some time now. Their manufacturers universally recommend bore twist rates faster than what are recommended for lead-cored bullets of similar weights.

Why would anyone want to have a copper bullet the same weight as a lead core bullet ? The reason you can't use light lead core bullet's for hunting is they penetrate much less than heavy lead core bullet's, that is because they either blow up or disintegrate and loose 75+% of their weight. Copper bullet's don't do that. They go in at 110 grains and come out 110 grains. The faster you push them the deeper the penetration and the bigger the wound channel.

 

[wwbrown]

As Field & Cave said try the Hammer Bullets, yes pricey but well worth it for hunting bullets. I have seen forum responses from the owner of Hammer on Longrangehunting.com say order some and if can't get them to shoot up to your accuracy standards return the unused for a full refund. I assume Hammer stands behind their bullets as stated because I have not heard anyone say they have not.