March Scope Update

[BHarvey]

Today was my first chance to shoot 1k since getting the March and it performed perfectly. At each distance, 600, 800, 900,not 1k though) we shoot steel targets that are sitting on top of 55 gallon drums. The range is flat for the most part until around 800 and then drops off a little to 900 and 1k, and that makes 900 look lower to the ground than 800, and you pick up alot of mirage. Before the mirage got really bad, and when I say really bad, I mean you could barely see the steel targets, the March was able to resolve bullet holes in the drums at 900 yds. You could actually count the holes! The holes in the 800 and 600 drums were even easier to see.

The contrast and clarity of this scope is outstanding and I am now trying to figure out how to get another one.

 

[chuckw2]

BHarvey,


You have me thinking... Just how much more do you like March over say an NSX 42???



Chuck

 

[palma]

I took a brief look through the scope, and it was very nice. Definitely better resolution than an NXS.

 

[dreever]

Before everybody jumps on the March scope bandwagon some things to consider are:

No lifetime warranty, I'm told 5 years.

If you do have a problem who can fix it? Kelblys, or a trip back to Japan?

For that kind of money I'd expect a lifetime warranty, and repair service within the CONUS.

 

[EdwinD]

AND warranty applies ONLY to original purchaser!

Edwin D.

 

[BHarvey]

I have not done a side by side comparison with the NXS42x, but from those I've looked through, the NXS is not even close. At this time, I don't even know anyone with a 42x Nightforce.
Did a brief comparison with the LCS40x at the last rimfire match, a 50 yard only range, and they were very close to each other with the March having a slight edge in clarity. Brightness was about the same and the March had the disc modifier in place, which without, would also have the edge in brightness.

 

[DaveBrokos]

This looks like a better investment for me. Soon to be released in December. Only a few hundred dollars more then March scope.
After talking to Schmidt and Bender about this scope I would find it very difficult to even look at a March scope.

 

[BoydAllen]

Nice scope. Might be hard to make #10.5 with it, and some serious and very specialized testing would have to be done to determine if it will hold POI to Benchrest standards.

 

[mikecr]

I'm rooting all the way for March.
And couldn't care less for S&B or US Optics.
They gotta earn their way like anyone else..

 

[BHarvey]

I do like the S&B's, all except the thick reticle. Even the P4 Fine almost covers a 1 moa aimpoint, which is way too thick.
Optically, the S&B's are, for the power range, the finest optics MY eye has looked through. The new 50x should be very good and I can't wait to check one out.

 

[BoydAllen]

40x; around $2,100; Kelbly's is the dealer.

 

[Fred Bohl]

Donovan

The March is made by Koto and their site is http://www1.ttcn.ne.jp/~koto-br/english.html

The edge in visual performance of the March over the Nightforce reported by Lynn is probably due to their use of ED,extra low dispersion glass) throughout. That requires less elements which leads to less internal reflections, less light loss, and less chromatic distortion. Therefore a brighter and clearer image.

I hope the next model will shed that side parallax adjust and use the optically superior objective parallax adjustment. That requires even less elements and thus gives still brighter and clearer image. From another thread per Danny Reever "I agree the side focus just adds another set of elements to slightly degrade image quality. I have two 12-42 Nightforces one a BR the other an NXS. The BR has the sharper image if you compare them side by side."

 

[mikecr]

I would prefer side focus, cuz I would use the scope for more than just punching paper at fixed ranges.
But with that, fixed power kills it either way for me.

I'm hoping they'll come up with a 'long range' version. It won't be fixed, and should include side focus.
Functionality is really important. Afterall, such a scope is an investment.

 

[Fred Bohl]

Mike

It sounds like the upcoming Schmidt & Bender 12.5-50 x 56 would be just about perfect for you. I hope for your sake that the rumored price of $2800 includes a mount/ring set for your rifle as the thumbnail sheet posted by David Brokos shows the tube to be 34mm diameter.

Maybe Koto could do a set of versions: existing March I, March II with objective parallax for me and March III 10-40x variable with side parallax adjust for you. Although it would be only fair to make existing March I and the March III in both left and right hand versions.

I wonder how big the US market would be for those 5 versions at the $2100+ each price point?

 

[mikecr]

I'll see it when I believe it Fred
Seriously, there isn't anything wrong with NF's offerings that I know of except weight. They are 'good enough' as many of the latest record setters have shown. Today, there is no scope technology on the horizon, that will help us shoot better. Right?

Overall performance,and popularity) of a scope includes a broad range of features. Weight, price, function, accuracy, reliability, performance, standardization, ergonomics, an aftermarket, etc. Anything outside market needs, puts it in a pile of bile.
Reality trumps Hollywood.

And we don't need specialized telescopes on our rifles. We need excellent riflescopes.
So when March, or S&B, or US Optics,scopes in that price range) can first match every single NXS feature, they've found no more than a basic starting point. From there, they might improve on an NXS without serious compromises.. Eventually they might earn their price tag..
We'll see

 

[Fred Bohl]

Today, there is no scope technology on the horizon, that will help us shoot better. Right?

First I hope you are very wrong. If there is no one working on improving scope technology we are stuck at today's performance levels.

For both short an long range benchrest we are seeing rigs and shooters capable of much better results and under very good conditions the results,group sizes and scores) we see are occasionally great. But many of the best are reporting problems with shift of POA and have been resorting to "frozen" scopes with external adjustments. With improvements in our other hardware some also find improved results by boosting the scope magnification.

The initial reports on match performance of the March scopes as compared to Leupold and Nightforce benchrest scopes seem to demonstrate brighter and clearer images and so far no POA shift. If this continues to be true then at least some scope technology improvement has been made that is helping some shoot better.

I keep hoping some scope maker follows these forums and will eventually build what we need at price that more than a handful can afford.

 

[tenring]

Just read the report by B. Harvey regarding the March scope performance. He was able to resolve 6mm bullet holes at 900 yds.;but does not report the conditions. Need to know how the scope performs in extreme conditions, mirage, poor light and wind factored in. Under ideal conditions, many quality scopes will show bullet holes out to 500 - 600 yards. And when will optical technology ever devise something to minimize the effect of mirage?? Perhaps a filter of some sort.

 

[Fred Bohl]

tenring

I don't know what caliber Mr. Harvey was shooting, but to resolve a .243in hole at 900 yards,0.026 MOA) that equates to the Dawes resolution limit for a 75mm objective lens. The March has a 52mm objective which would have a Dawes resolution limit of 0.037 MOA which equates to a 0.350in hole at 900 yards.

The segment of the atmosphere between the scope and the target together with all its clarity problems,fog, pollution particulates, thermal mirage, and wind turbulence) are not within the control of the scope designer. You may find under select haze conditions that a contrast enhancement filter,light yellow) may improve your perception of the image quality but remember that filters remove light including some that provides target information.

There are some technological paths to aid the "bad seeing" see:
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=2067783

 

[dreever]

Side focus only helps you if you're right handed. To we "Lefties" it's more of a nuisance than anything else.

Danny

 

[Forum Boss]

In today's Bulletin item on the March, B. Harvey was talking about being able to "see" bullet holes in 55 gallon drums at 900 yards. Keep in mind that this may be an easier task than seeing a 6mm hole in paper. When you hit metal, typically you get splatter,on an armored target) which enlarges the hole significantly. If the bullet passes right through the metal,which seems to be the case with Brian's 55gal drums) you'll still get an enlarged hole with some visible changes to the surrounding area,paint removed or rust chipped away).