Making 22 BR brass ??

[NorCalMikie]

I've got 2 6BR no turn neck rifles with 1-8 twist barrels but I've been thinking about a 22 BR.
How easy is it to form 22 BR brass?
What do you use for a seater die?
What about a neck sizer?
What about twist for the barrel? Will a 1-8 work?
I use a RCBS compitition seater die for my 6BRs and love it.
I like the fact that I don't have to turn necks.
What are you folks using? Any tips? Thanks in advance. Mike.

 

[SF340Driver]

Run 6mmBR brass thru a 22 BR FL die and you now have new 22 BR brass -- stupid easy.

 

[tootalloutdoors]

Hi NorCal, It's Kelly.. The 22BR I has was a Douglas 14 twist .250" neck from Fred. I used my Redding 6BR "S" die with a bushing for the 22BR... I "did" need to turn then a bit. I was told that I would have needed to go with a .253", 254" neck to avoid the turning.. I used the Forster Ultra-Seater along with that.. Mine shot amazingly well. Go for it Mike..
Kelly

 

[NorCalMikie]

Hey toot: I thought I remembered you playing with the 22 Br.
Been thinking it might be fun. Got a RCBS comp seater that I can swap parts in to do the 22 Br. Like to have a 1-8 twist barrel if that would work. Need a "short throat?? Need all the info I can get.

 

[tripcrow]

If we’re having a good day my 8 twist, .243 necked 22BR with 75 & 80g VLDs and Varget can shoot with any gun or any caliber made out at 400-600 yards. It won the 2007 St. Thomas Groundhog Shoot Custom Class agg and holds the range 500 yard record of .855” at the Mifflin County Sportsman’s Ass. south of Williamsport PA. So you know some of the better long range folks and guns have had a go at it. Just had another 8 twist 22BR built for a long range live groundhog gun and had a 14 twist 22BR barrel rechambered to 221 Fireball for a short range live groundhog gun.
The brass I used last year was a mix of Norma and Lapua. The Lapua was once fired as a 6BR before just running it through a FL die to form the 22BR case. I like the Lapua brass more than the Norma and wouldn’t bother with Remington. The Sinclair flash hole tool and neck turner are used to uniform the small primer holes and do the necks lightly into the shoulder.

As for your questions:
22BR brass is easy to form with any FL die.
For a seater my preference is the Forster Ultra Seaters, even over Wilsons.
For a neck die it’s a Redding S with tit bushings and light Ballistol lube. But am in the middle of deciding between a custom Lee Collet or the new Forster Bump Bushing because I can’t get the runout out of the Redding.
Out to 200 yards the 14 twist was outstanding. But past that the little 22 bullets are really at a big disadvantage and open up even when the conditions are good. Haven’t found the range the 8 twist is bad at yet.
I was told by some short range guys that know their stuff that the 243” neck is the standard with the 22 cal and if I was building another bench barrel it’d have that.

I shoot a good amount of different calibers and classes in groundhog bench competition and have had the privilege of meeting and shooting with some outstanding shooters. IMO the 22BR is one of the best calibers made for mid-range score or group. What it loses in being able to see holes at a distance and catching a scoring ring it makes up on X count when the Xs have to be clean and its speed assisted accuracy. But if you’re looking to win you need to ask yourself how consistent and good are you at reading conditions. I’m one of those guys that from day to day goes to the range never knowing if his head is going to be able to track 1 or 4 tells. Even if I can find them. So a fickle caliber like a 22 probably isn’t what I should be using. If winning is all important then the 22BR is be better suited for the more consistent shooter that’s very good at reading conditions.
Couldn’t tell you what kind of life to expect out of a 22BR. Thinking 2000 would be on the high side. But I know it can’t be anywhere near what the consistent performing 30BR gets. Was talking to a friend on the phone a few days back that still wins regular at groundhog shoots with his 30BR. He told me he’s just now thinking of re-barreling after 7105 rounds!!

 

[Preacher]

My 26 inch 8 twist 22BR shoots the 75gr A-max very well at near 22/250 velocitys..
I had Dave Kiff cut the reamer for that particular bullet in a 22BR case..... so I never used anything else in it....

 

[tootalloutdoors]

I'll talk at you tonight, Mikie. I've got to go to a basketball game.. Short throat, Yes.. Toot

 

[tootalloutdoors]

I'm gonna try to paste a few things here Mike, from when I was looking. If it doesn't work, I'll try something else but you'll get them.. Toot

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=1273379&highlight=22br

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=2322328&highlight=22br

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=215513&highlight=22br

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=1368925&highlight=22br

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=716366&highlight=22br

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=1724166&highlight=22br

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15367&highlight=22br+2520

Thru all my searching many moons ago Mike, I found that the most popular answer for the 22BR no-turn neck was at .254"..

Also by far most were using it for lighter bullets with a slow twist. That could be because that's the areas I mostly frequent also.
Again, mine was a .250 neck 14 twist Douglas that Fred M. chambered for me. I had no trouble touching the lands with my light bullets. I was completely new to the cartridge and turning of brass. I'm pretty sure from the replies I received that I prepped my brass backwards. Most suggested to neck down the 6BR brass to .224" in a couple of stages using bushings. One big scrunch from .243" to .224" was going to be too much.
After necking down, then turn the necks to the proper thickness. Well being new to it, and with very limited reloading tools, I attempted it. Then after necking down, I went to put the brass on my .224" turning pilot and realized that all the brass I was going to turn off the outside of my neck was now on the inside of the neck. Because I had already bought the turning pilot for .224", I was stuck..
So I started turning them in their 6mm form first because I had that correct pilot already. Then necking down with my bushing. It seems like I had settled on a .247" bushing for the .250" neck..
Forming the brass this way took a huge amount of trial and error coming up with the absolute correct thickness at the end of the process. Because the way I was doing it was actually going to create my tension with my turning.. I was using a Forster trimmer, turner tool..

After all the trial by error stuff I came up with fantastic results though. Try to follow this if I can write it down correctly..
I took my new 6BR Lapua which measured a big .013" neck thickness.,by my calipers). I took that brass, stuck it on my Forster trimmer, turning tool,Usually a 2 step process), with my turning pilot for the 6mm size. I had my turning head and my trimming head both already set up to do both trim and turn in the same process.. It seems to me that I turned them to around .011" thickness for the .250" neck. And trimmed to whatever it was. Took this brass which was now thinner material than the original, and sized it in a Redding busing die in one shot, "boom." Then loaded normally..
I want to stress that everything was done by trial, simply because this was setting my tension the way I was doing it..
Also the trim to length was trial and error. When I trimmed to .xxx" length "THEN" neck them down to .224" it would change my length.
So, it was a tremendous amount for me to comprehend as a newbie. But what I ended up with was an extremely tight fit chamber. Once this was all dialed in "perfectly",whatever my actual numbers were). I could go through all that prep work, load, and shoot. Come back to my reloading press and "skip" the sizing die completely, and just prime, charge, and seat. Go shoot and do it again.
What was happening was my loaded round was at the very most snug size to allow the bullet to release and fire, the brass would expand and contract during that process and have the perfect amount of tension for next time. It may have even been technically unsafe, but I never had a problem with it.
The brass after I fire all my other guns is like this.. I can eject them from the action, and take a bullet and I'm able to slide it back in because the brass has expanded to the neck, and bounced back, still having enough room for the bullet to slide thru. I liked using very light tension. This gun would give me back a piece of brass that was ready to seat another bullet and still give me close to .001 tension. Maybe a hair less, I didn't use much tension..
I don't know if it was dangerous or not, but it sure was "COOL"!!!

I don't think you can avoid using either bushing dies,my recommendation), or going with a total custom set.

Well, you said you wanted something to read on the subject. As usual I probably got WAY carried away. But it brought back memories, and I got excited...

 

[NorCalMikie]

Toot:,Kelly) I like the "been there, done that". Keeps me from going over the same thing. I'am wide open for all the info I can get. Thanks. Mike.