Lube neck for body die?

[RemingtonAI]

Hey guys, haven't posted in quite a while, and reassessing my reloading technique. I took a few years off, as reloading sent me into machining, and building my machine shop has taken all of my time. Anyways, I am going to be using a Redding body die, to bump the shoulder back about .002 and resize the body. I am then following up with a Lee collet neck die. I am reloading .308, with Lapua brass but I don't think it matters here. Question: Do I need to lube the neck, inside or out, when using the body die? I plan to use dry lube (mica) for ease when using the Lee neck die, but wan' sure if I neeed to lube the neck for the body die.
Second question: Is there any reason why I shouldn't, or can't, leave the primer in when I use the body die? My Lee collet neck die has the primer punch, but I'd like to use it second, after the body die. Is that a problem? I have read that people using this process see no difference in accuracy, whether they use the neck die first, or the body die first, but theoretically at least, I don't want the body sizing to affect the neck at all, varying it's ID.
Just for reference, I do plan to use these 2 dies together for every reloading, for consistency. Thanks for your help in advance. Jesse

 

[piie]

So this is just how I would do it:

You dont need neck lube for body dies- nothing is done to the neck.

For Lee collet neck dies, there is also no need for lube since there isnt anything being drawn over the brass. However, since it has the decapper in, and you state you would like to use it second- it will remove the primer, and that could detonate it. If you willinly need to remove a live primer, drop some oil into the case first, so no, it will not work that way for you at all.

While it is probably not going to be an issue to push a primed case into a body die , its probably not a good idea for a two reasons:
1. If the case got stuck- removing a primed case can be an issue (if not dangerous).
2. You need to lube your case to body size- I dont like to have any lube anywhere near primers,I always decap, clean, size, clean and dry and then only prime.

If you had to size a primed case in a pinch, it would probably be ok if it is an exception, but I would not create a workflow where the order requires you to work the case after priming.

 

[mikecr]

The body die does not touch the neck. So no lubing
The body die function is not affected by seated primers. So primers are not a problem

 

[Fast14riot]

I use the same method in many of the cartridges I load for. I have a second press dedicated for depriming with a universal die. I always deprime and clean before sizing, I do not want dirty brass going into my body die. No need to lube the neck, just lube the case body like normal. I do not use any lube with the collet neck die.
Also, the Lee collet neck dies benefit from being taken apart and cleaned up inside and on the mating surfaces of the collet. They tend to be a little rough.

 

[M-61]

A primed case inside a die is something I could not do. (If it for whatever reason it goes off I think you have either the entire stem being 'fired' or you have a nicely machined pipe bomb....maybe a primer lacks the power to do either...I'll never find out)
I would not rely on oil to render a primer inert.

 

[RemingtonAI]

So this is just how I would do it:

You dont need neck lube for body dies- nothing is done to the neck.

For Lee collet neck dies, there is also no need for lube since there isnt anything being drawn over the brass. However, since it has the decapper in, and you state you would like to use it second- it will remove the primer, and that could detonate it. If you willinly need to remove a live primer, drop some oil into the case first, so no, it will not work that way for you at all.

While it is probably not going to be an issue to push a primed case into a body die , its probably not a good idea for a two reasons:
1. If the case got stuck- removing a primed case can be an issue (if not dangerous).
2. You need to lube your case to body size- I dont like to have any lube anywhere near primers,I always decap, clean, size, clean and dry and then only prime.

If you had to size a primed case in a pinch, it would probably be ok if it is an exception, but I would not create a workflow where the order requires you to work the case after priming.

I'm sorry, I must have muddied up my question. I do NOT want to neck size while a live primer is in. I will prime the cases after all brass prep is complete. The Lee neck die will DEprime the case. Sorry for having you try to answer what would have been a ridiculous question But thank you for answering it anyways, and showing so much reserve!

 

[RemingtonAI]

Thanks to all for answering that for me. Sorry it may have sounded like I wanted to size a primed case, but no one even said it was a stupid idea, I forgot how helpful this fourm can be! My last inquiry here was about buying my first (real) lathe, and recommendations as to which type. I did go with the most popular suggestion, the South Bend Heavy 10, and it has been great. It's a 1968 toolroom model, and has since done many many jobs. Back then, my reloading room was getting too crowded and it busted out into the garage with the lathe. Now, the garage is a pretty decently equipped machine shop. But the lathe was the start of it all and that could have gone many different directions as to what kind. I am extremely thankful you guys (the fourm) guided me in that direction. Jesse

 

[foxguy]

My Process with a Body Die.

1. Universal De-prime
2. clean carbon off of the exterior (Necks and Shoulder, I like to clean it off so the dies don't get carboned up).
3. Lube the body of the brass case
4 Re-size the body
5. i use the Lee Collet Die to neck size.

 

[gman47564]

no need for any lube on the necks when using a redding body die or a lee collet neck sizing die... its a good idea to deprime the cases in a separate step to start with but if you dont have a dedicated universal decapping die then the lee collet die will punch the old primer out....

 

[Dusty Stevens]

No need for lube on the neck or shoulder in any operation besides neck turning.

 

[Murray Brook]

I use the same method in many of the cartridges I load for. I have a second press dedicated for depriming with a universal die. I always deprime and clean before sizing, I do not want dirty brass going into my body die. No need to lube the neck, just lube the case body like normal. I do not use any lube with the collet neck die.
Also, the Lee collet neck dies benefit from being taken apart and cleaned up inside and on the mating surfaces of the collet. They tend to be a little rough.

x2 and if I might add, a bit of light grease on the collet fingers works great.

 

[RemingtonAI]

Seems like you all use a dedicated depriming die. This is because of the dirtiness of it, and trying to separate the carbon and junk from your good dies? I can't see the junk traveling up into the die when the primer is pushed down through the shell holder. Does this really happen, or is there another reason. It must be worth the added process so I am very curious.

 

[gman47564]

For me i use a seperate press with a lee universal decapping die.. (cheap lee press) just to keep all the junk and crude off my good presses..

 

[dolek]

Seems like you all use a dedicated depriming die. This is because of the dirtiness of it, and trying to separate the carbon and junk from your good dies? I can't see the junk traveling up into the die when the primer is pushed down through the shell holder. Does this really happen, or is there another reason. It must be worth the added process so I am very curious.

It's your ram and press that gets dirty when popping primers out,not the die . I like my primers gone before I do any processing, I want to feel everything going on when I pull that handle down without the resistance to push a primer out of the pocket.

 

[RemingtonAI]

For me i use a seperate press with a lee universal decapping die.. (cheap lee press) just to keep all the junk and crude off my good presses..

OK, that's what I was thinking, it would be nice if the ram could be kept clean. I think If I were using a FLS die, and depriming at the same time as forming the case, I would probably switch to doing that in a heartbeat. Now that I'm going to be using a body die that doesn't deprime, I don't think it'll be an issue of feel. The explanation makes perfect sense though.

 

[Chuckhunter]

I de-prime first mainly because I anneal my fired cases before sizing.
Then size with a FL bushing (Harrell Die).
Degrease my brass with non-chlorinated brake cleaner.
Prime, powder, seat, done.

 

[RemingtonAI]

I de-prime first mainly because I anneal my fired cases before sizing.
Then size with a FL bushing (Harrell Die).
Degrease my brass with non-chlorinated brake cleaner.
Prime, powder, seat, done.

I haven't been annealing, but just ordered an Annealeez, and will be very soon. I hadn't though about it's order into this new process but I'm glad you mentioned that . Should I not anneal with the spent primer still in? I know I have to anneal before sizing, which means I'd have to anneal before I de-prime, or do like you said and de-prime as a separate operation first.

 

[Chuckhunter]

I haven't been annealing, but just ordered an Annealeez, and will be very soon. I hadn't though about it's order into this new process but I'm glad you mentioned that . Should I not anneal with the spent primer still in? I know I have to anneal before sizing, which means I'd have to anneal before I de-prime, or do like you said and de-prime as a separate operation first.

With the annealeez you could leave the spent primer in. I'm using an AMP annealer and they recommend leaving the flash hole open so any impurities being burned off are allowed to escape. Occasionally I'll see a little puff of smoke escape through the flash hole.

 

[RemingtonAI]

With the annealeez you could leave the spent primer in. I'm using an AMP annealer and they recommend leaving the flash hole open so any impurities being burned off are allowed to escape. Occasionally I'll see a little puff of smoke escape through the flash hole.

Ahh yes, that makes sense. Thanks

 

[Fast14riot]

Seems like you all use a dedicated depriming die. This is because of the dirtiness of it, and trying to separate the carbon and junk from your good dies? I can't see the junk traveling up into the die when the primer is pushed down through the shell holder. Does this really happen, or is there another reason. It must be worth the added process so I am very curious.

Dirt and grime from depriming do get all over the ram, yes, but also anything on the outside of the case could scratch the brass and any other cases afterwards if getting stuck inside the die. Plus, it keeps any primers not caught from ending up under my chair.