Looking to find out some genius on neck turning.
- Thread starter jsteiger
- Start date
Welcome to the forum J
Assuming your shooting a factory barrel neck turning is not necessary. I know some folks will but I doubt theres much to be gained.
As long as your specific lot of brass has fairly consistent neck variations .001" maybe as much as .00125 all is good in a factory tube.
If your brass is worse than that just buy better brass.
The only brass I've used in 308 is Lapua and an old lot of Winchester Palma Match. Both exhibited consistent neck thickness.
Neck turning (outside) is better than reaming (inside)
Assuming your shooting a factory barrel neck turning is not necessary. I know some folks will but I doubt theres much to be gained.
As long as your specific lot of brass has fairly consistent neck variations .001" maybe as much as .00125 all is good in a factory tube.
If your brass is worse than that just buy better brass.
The only brass I've used in 308 is Lapua and an old lot of Winchester Palma Match. Both exhibited consistent neck thickness.
Neck turning (outside) is better than reaming (inside)
thanks Joe...actually have some Lapua brass on the way. This will be the first I've reloaded any Lapua. All I've used so far is mostly Remington and some Federal...Haven't really seen much variation in accuracy. I'm still in the beginning stages of finding a "sweet load" for my gun. It's actually my first long range gun and i'm just trial and erroring my way through the whole reloading process. Started out with forster FL benchrest die and seater. I now invested in a Lee collet neck sizer and am getting better groups, but still can't quite replicate the accuracy of the Federal Gold Medal match ammo. Just backed off the Lee die to give about .001 neck tension on the last batch I loaded...seemed to be good consistent seating pressure when I ran the cartridge up into the seater die...I'll see if this tightens my groups up any. Any help will be appreciated...
I'm shooting a savage 10fp...24" barrel 1 in 10 twist with a Bell and Calson stock. At 100 yds i'm shooting penny size groups with Federal gold medal ammo. My reloads are shooting quarter to half dollar groups. At 200 yds federal ammo shooting 3/4 to 1" groups...my reloads are shooting 2-3" groups. I'll walk you through my reload regimen...Remington brass fired several times...start out wiping necks off with brass polish...then check for trim length (currently at 2.008), trim if necessary, chamfer and debur with hand tool, then neck size with Lee collet die. Recently set die to give about .001 neck tension... debur flash hole and clean out primer pocket. prime with CCIBR primers then charge cases. Have tried varget, h414, benchmark, h380, imr4064, imr3031. most recently loaded 44.0 and 43.0 grains of Varget with 175 sierra bthp, oal 2.800. seating with a forster benchrest seater. also brushing inside of neck with 30 cal brush...no lube when seating. Also ran same process with 42 gr of imr 4064. Go ahead and tell me what i'm doing wrong...don't hold back now...tell me how you really feel! I've tried running right up to the lands...tried .010 off...and several othe jump distances also...nothing really seems to change my groups...the Lee collet die has tightened them some...
To be completely honest with you! I don't have a freekin clue what your doing wrong. Sounds like you've been covering the bases.
Hard for me to understand how Fed Gold could group so well and your reloads bite.
Like I said I mostly shoot short range stuff. My only 308 winny is a Kreiger tight bore Palma tube (chopped to 26'') and that particular setup follows no "book" rules. My tube likes N-140 best but I think your problem is beyond powder choice.
Hang on tho. There are knowledgable folk here that should be able to ask the pertinent questions.
Hard for me to understand how Fed Gold could group so well and your reloads bite.
Like I said I mostly shoot short range stuff. My only 308 winny is a Kreiger tight bore Palma tube (chopped to 26'') and that particular setup follows no "book" rules. My tube likes N-140 best but I think your problem is beyond powder choice.
Hang on tho. There are knowledgable folk here that should be able to ask the pertinent questions.
FWIW I tried the Lee neck sizer. So many people rave about its use. You too state it improved accuracy. I my self had a devil of of a time with it in 308W. I personally FL size every darn cartridge I load for from 6ppc to 6.5x284. Necksized for years cuz everyone said to. Saw the difference in accuracy in a 204R between FL and necksize between the same load and just switched to FL everytime. Right or wrong its a Redding FL bushing die if I expect that rifle to shoot.
Just one little drop in the bucket ;D
Best advice you'll get from me. Load those 175smk's .020 off the lands and shoot an Audette Ladder test with whichever powder you have the most faith in.
1 last ? Any particular shape to the groups your getting?
Just one little drop in the bucket ;D
Best advice you'll get from me. Load those 175smk's .020 off the lands and shoot an Audette Ladder test with whichever powder you have the most faith in.
1 last ? Any particular shape to the groups your getting?
I have to say I really haven't paid close attention to the group shapes...i'll try to note them in the future...never heard of the Audette Ladder test, but just looked it up...why didn't I think of that? Isn't it amazing how simple things can be right in front of our faces sometimes...just need a good whack on the head with a baseball bat to realize they're there. Thanks for all the help, I'll let you know how that test goes...hopefully this weekend!
holstil
Silver $$ Contributor
Stop with the brass polishing. I hear most of that stuff turns to gun poison when heated. In trying to identify the difference in factory loads to hand loads, have you looked at runout on your sized brass and loaded rounds?
I think you need the Lapua brass as a baseline.
The 308 outta eat em up and spit em out pretty good.
Runs in my mind, I was shooting 44.5gr. or more of Varget behind a 175SMK with pretty good results. Work up slow.
Also, seat and then pull a bullet. Check to be sure you chamfered properly, you don't want to see any deep scratches on the jacket. When chamfering, try to remove the tool while it is still turning so as not to get any burrs. Gently is the key on the last pass.
Welcome, Jim
I think you need the Lapua brass as a baseline.
The 308 outta eat em up and spit em out pretty good.
Runs in my mind, I was shooting 44.5gr. or more of Varget behind a 175SMK with pretty good results. Work up slow.
Also, seat and then pull a bullet. Check to be sure you chamfered properly, you don't want to see any deep scratches on the jacket. When chamfering, try to remove the tool while it is still turning so as not to get any burrs. Gently is the key on the last pass.
Welcome, Jim
thanks Joe...actually have some Lapua brass on the way
You do not need to turn necks on Lapua brass. Its that good!
You do not need to turn necks on Lapua brass. Its that good!
hello
if I was you I would stop with the neck turning and focus on other things that is more important like.
weigh each load you do. If your just dumping powder in with the powder scale you will not get the right amount of powder every time.
If you are shooting only out to 200 yds I would not use the 175 gr bullet. Go with a lighter bullet.
For my savage I use 168a-max bullets and IMR 4064 and get the best groups from 100 to 500 yards.
good luck
matt
if I was you I would stop with the neck turning and focus on other things that is more important like.
weigh each load you do. If your just dumping powder in with the powder scale you will not get the right amount of powder every time.
If you are shooting only out to 200 yds I would not use the 175 gr bullet. Go with a lighter bullet.
For my savage I use 168a-max bullets and IMR 4064 and get the best groups from 100 to 500 yards.
good luck
matt
I was giving the neck a quick polish to try and keep everything as neat and uniform as possible before runing into sizing die...I'll switch to the steel wool. runout is excelent on both sized brass neck and loaded rounds. I was trying to size and deprime my brass before putting into tumbler. Thought that would do a better job cleaning with the spent primer out of the way? Thanks for the hints on your load recipe.
What exactly is considered a deep scratch on a pulled bullet?
Thanks for the advice on not neck turning...makes sense to concentrate on more important things.
As far as charging my cases...I'm using a powder measure to dump the bulk of the load and then trickling up to total. I'm using a beam scale and nunning right up to as close as I can see with my eyes. I have sharpened the pointing needle a bit and try to put it right on the money every time...is there something else I should be doing...as long as my scale is accurate I'm within a grain or two of 1/10th of a grain consistently?
What exactly is considered a deep scratch on a pulled bullet?
Thanks for the advice on not neck turning...makes sense to concentrate on more important things.
As far as charging my cases...I'm using a powder measure to dump the bulk of the load and then trickling up to total. I'm using a beam scale and nunning right up to as close as I can see with my eyes. I have sharpened the pointing needle a bit and try to put it right on the money every time...is there something else I should be doing...as long as my scale is accurate I'm within a grain or two of 1/10th of a grain consistently?
There's no magic to be found in turning necks, nor is it a great mystery. I have a brief article here explaining the basics.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/12/reloading-neck-turning.html
Before you undertake any new reloading process make sure you have a clear idea of what you expect from the process and have a way of quantifying the result. If you don't, then it's mostly wasted effort.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/12/reloading-neck-turning.html
Before you undertake any new reloading process make sure you have a clear idea of what you expect from the process and have a way of quantifying the result. If you don't, then it's mostly wasted effort.
Is federal ammo bullets that you were shooting 175gr serria BTHP?jsteiger said:
You are reloading the same way as I do except I use a electronic scale. Try some diffrent bullets ???
When I got my savage 308 I first tryed the serria bullets with diffrent loads and could not get any good groups and then I tryed the hornady and that did the trick. I have a savage 243 that is totally opposite :
can't win ;Dsorry I can't help you :-[
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