Looking for some 380 ACP Reloading Advice

[California-Dude]

HI.. I'm currently reloading 380 ACP for my Kahr Arms P380 which I am in the process of training with in order to get my CCW permit. I used to Reload 30 years ago. As result of Gorgeous Gavin Newsom with the perfectly coiffed hair on top of a completely empty head along with the libtards running our legislature, ammunition is now subject to a 15% surcharge tax in California. A box of 50 rounds of basic 95 grain range ammo is close to $40.00 at the range. (off my ranting soap box) I just purchased 94 Grain FMJ Prvi Partizan Bullets and am using Hodgdon Pistol CFE powder. The Hodgdon website says to us 3.7 grains with a 95 grain Speer FMJ projectile as the starting load. Is it safe using the same load for 94 grains instead?

Update:​

Shot 200 rounds using mixed brass and 120 94 grain and balance 95 grain. Results 95% stripped, chambered and fired exactly as hoped. The other 5%, weird. 5 had failure to fire..(not sure of light strike or primer failure) The others either jammed at the feed ramp or did not fully chamber. 100% were all put through a Lyman chamber gage to make sure they fit properly and head spaced correctly. Kahr Arms P380s seem to be finicky at times getting fed. Love to hear anyone else's experience. I am reloading another batch of 200

 

[GLShooter]

No problem at all with that.

 

[kevinbritvec]

For a starting load? Sure. Bullet design such as bearing surface, jacket thickness, lead hardness and other factors contribute to pressures, but using a starting load with a similar bullet that nominally weighs the same would be a good place to start IMO.

 

[Cecil S.]

I love my G42 I find it easy to control but its not my first choice for PD although better then throwing rocks. I bought it for Mama to go shooting with me. I load Midway seconds in 90grn JHP sorted range pick up brass with 4.3 grns of AA#5. I havent Cronoed this load yet. I find this easy on my shooting budget. JMHO

 

[California-Dude]

My Frustration seems to know no bounds. I am getting close to a 25% failure rate in reloading the 380 ACP. The failure in this case is for the finished rounds after being put through a Lee Carbide Factory Crimping Die, not being able to be fully inserted in the Lee Chamber gage. Specifically I am getting rounds that partially insert into the gage but get hung up between 50% inserted and 90% inserted. The steps I go through are: 1. Full Length Size in Lee Carbide Sizing Die. 2. Insert case into Lee Chamber Gage. If it plops in, on to the next stage. If it is sticky going in or does not go in, discard case. 2. Bell Mouth and Prime using Lee Die. 3. Charge case with powder and place a projectile on it. 4. Run through Lee Sizing Die and ensure using calipers that the bullet is seated per or slightly below Spec. 5. Run through Lee Carbide Factory Crip die and then insert into Lee Chamber Gage to see if it plops in or needs help pushing in or will not go in. If it needs a little help getting in but does not get stuck, I run it through the Lee CFCD a few times to see if it improves. If not, it and the ones that get stuck, get disassembled and the brass discarded. Has anyone gone through this?? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Is your sizing die bottomed out on your shell holder ? Does your fired brass show a bulge from an usupported area at the feed ramp ?

Just guessing you are swelling the brass big time and not getting it back far enough for your chamber and feeding.

 

[AccelR8]

C-D, if I understand what you're saying, you'll have a case that after sizing will plop into the chamber gauge OK but after seating a bullet and running it in the carbide factory crimp die it will not fit properly in the chamber gauge. If that's the situation my first suspicion would be not enough removal of the belling of the case mouth. I'd look at that closely and try adjusting the crimp die to crimp the case more. I reload 380 and use the Lee CFCD. When setting up I'll use a caliper to make sure I'm removing the bell completely.

I use the barrel of my pistol as a chamber gauge. Take down the pistol and remove the barrel. Loaded rounds should chamber flush with or just slightly below the barrel hood. it may be that your chamber gauge is minimum spec. but the actual chamber is generous enough to work with the rounds in question.

 

[GotRDid]

Perhaps experiment with group of same headstamp cases after you address concerns expressed by Jeff Porter, and AccelR8. Then perhaps increase your charge weight in .2 gr increments (but still below max) to get your slide up to speed.
Good Luck.

 

[tommeboy]

First thing first. LEE CHAMBER GAUGE????????????

Lee does not make a chamber gauge. What bullets? You don't need the carbide crimp die.

First thing to do is pull your barrel out of your gun. The set you seating die screw down till it touches the rim on a sized case. There you just set your crimp. Run a piece of brass through the expander and seat a bullet. But seat it long. Adjust slowly to set the length you need. See if it will drop into your chamber of the barrel. If it doesn't then screw in the seating die just a little. About a 1/8 of a turn. Not the seat adjustment the die itself. Then see if it drops into your chamber.

Most all 380autos have HUGE chambers so I don't think that is a problem. Another thing is 380 brass has rims tht are all over the place as to diameter so be careful of ripping the rims off.

 

[jk80]

If you're shooting them through a glock case bulge could definitely be a problem. As someone above said make sure your sizing die is getting it out. Another vote for using your actual barrel you're shooting them as your chamber gauge.

 

[AccelR8]

I was given a bunch of fired brass picked up from a training facility. It contained several hundred 380 ACP cases. Many if not most of them have a significant bulge. I use my Lee carbide factory crimp die as a push-through "bulge buster" on all the cases as a first step in reloading.

As someone said above, the Lee CFCD is not needed in the normal reloading process. the standard reloading dies do a good job and the CFCD is an added, unneeded step in my experience. Actually the standard dies seem to handle said bulge well enough too and my bulge buster 1st step is probably not needed either but it makes me feel better. Which is important

 

[California-Dude]

Is your sizing die bottomed out on your shell holder ? Does your fired brass show a bulge from an usupported area at the feed ramp ?

Just guessing you are swelling the brass big time and not getting it back far enough for your chamber and feeding.

Hey Jeff. Yes to both questions but where the bulge seems to be, varies. Example; In Fiocci brass (Headstamp GFL), the bulge takes place after the bullet is seated. Before then, looks perfect and fits into the Hornady Chamber Gage, perfectly. In other brass, such as Ammo Inc, 1776, New Rep and Norma, the buldge tends to be near the bottom of the case. PMC brass frequently has it in both places. I am buying 1x fired brass from a few places.

 

[California-Dude]

C-D, if I understand what you're saying, you'll have a case that after sizing will plop into the chamber gauge OK but after seating a bullet and running it in the carbide factory crimp die it will not fit properly in the chamber gauge. If that's the situation my first suspicion would be not enough removal of the belling of the case mouth. I'd look at that closely and try adjusting the crimp die to crimp the case more. I reload 380 and use the Lee CFCD. When setting up I'll use a caliper to make sure I'm removing the bell completely.

I use the barrel of my pistol as a chamber gauge. Take down the pistol and remove the barrel. Loaded rounds should chamber flush with or just slightly below the barrel hood. it may be that your chamber gauge is minimum spec. but the actual chamber is generous enough to work with the rounds in question.

Hi AccelR8, what you say makes perfect sense except for the fact less than 20% of the completed cartridges have this problem. I did a statistical analysis based on case manufacturer and found that the problem is most prevalent in Fiocci, Ammo Inc, New Rep, Norma and PMC. I will follow your advice and measure the bell mouth change from un crimped brass to crimped brass. I'll report back what I find. Thanks for the advice.

 

[California-Dude]

Perhaps experiment with group of same headstamp cases after you address concerns expressed by Jeff Porter, and AccelR8. Then perhaps increase your charge weight in .2 gr increments (but still below max) to get your slide up to speed.
Good Luck.

Hi GotRDid.. I had problem previously with severe carbon and powder residue on both my Kahr Arms P380 and Bersa Firestorm. I spoke with Hodgdon and they suggested increasing the powder charge to 4.1 to 4.15 gns of the CFE that I am using. It did fix the problem and is the standard charge I use for all of the bullets from 70gns to 100 gns. No signs of overpressure and good cases work great. Max is 4.2 gns. I did a study of the failures and I think it is is indeed related to brass MFG. See above reply to Jeff Porter. Thanks for the advice.

 

[California-Dude]

First thing first. LEE CHAMBER GAUGE????????????

Lee does not make a chamber gauge. What bullets? You don't need the carbide crimp die.

First thing to do is pull your barrel out of your gun. The set you seating die screw down till it touches the rim on a sized case. There you just set your crimp. Run a piece of brass through the expander and seat a bullet. But seat it long. Adjust slowly to set the length you need. See if it will drop into your chamber of the barrel. If it doesn't then screw in the seating die just a little. About a 1/8 of a turn. Not the seat adjustment the die itself. Then see if it drops into your chamber.

Most all 380autos have HUGE chambers so I don't think that is a problem. Another thing is 380 brass has rims tht are all over the place as to diameter so be careful of ripping the rims off.

Hey Tommeboy.. You're right.. Yup.. I'm a putz. It's a Hornady Chamber gage and not a Lee gage. For bullets, I typically use Amscor 95 gn FMJ RN, Speer 90 gn JHP, Dead Nutz 70 gn Plated HP, and Hornady 90gn HP. The overwhelming majority are the Amscor bullets as I am training on my Kahr Arms P380 and Bersa Firestorm for CCW. Typically I use the Lee Seating/Crimp die to just seat the bullet to .960 to .970 COL. For the Dead Nutz, I found that seating it to .950 seems to strip and chamber easier. The reason for switching from the Lee Bullet Seat/Crimp die alone to the Lee CFCD was on advise from Hodgdon when I had severe under burn of the CFE I use. They said it gives a little better crimp than the Lee Bullet Seat/Crimp die.
You have many good points and I have not tried using the barrels of my pistols as gages. Maybe the Hornady chamber gage is is little too discerning. I will give it a try and see what the results look like comparing cartridges finalized in the Lee Bullet Seat/Crimp die vs the Lee CFCD. Thanks for the awesome advice!

 

[California-Dude]

If you're shooting them through a glock case bulge could definitely be a problem. As someone above said make sure your sizing die is getting it out. Another vote for using your actual barrel you're shooting them as your chamber gauge.

Thanks JK80. It seems the consensus is leaning that way. I will give it a try. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[California-Dude]

I was given a bunch of fired brass picked up from a training facility. It contained several hundred 380 ACP cases. Many if not most of them have a significant bulge. I use my Lee carbide factory crimp die as a push-through "bulge buster" on all the cases as a first step in reloading.

As someone said above, the Lee CFCD is not needed in the normal reloading process. the standard reloading dies do a good job and the CFCD is an added, unneeded step in my experience. Actually the standard dies seem to handle said bulge well enough too and my bulge buster 1st step is probably not needed either but it makes me feel better. Which is important

I just did some measurements and came up with some weird findings. Typically, when I run the Fiocci brass (Headstamp GFL) in the Lee Carbide sizing dies, there is zero bulges near the mouth area of the brass. the bulges only become evident when a bullet is seated and not yet crimped. Same thing for all of the Norma brass that i reviewed. Do you think Fiocci and Norma are making their brass differently than Speer, Winchester, Blazer and Federal, which i don't normally see any issues with? I am going to try 100 cartridges just with the Lee Seater/Crimp die and see what happens in the Hornady Chamber Gage and my two barrels.

 

[Tommie]

I’m a very competent handloader with decades of experience. That said, all my self defense weapons are loaded with factory ammunition. I recommend the same to everyone.

 

[AccelR8]

Do you think Fiocci and Norma are making their brass differently than Speer, Winchester, Blazer and Federal, which i don't normally see any issues with?

Possibly. May be different thickness or hardness. For example on some reloaded 9mm I see a visible difference in diameter, I can see exactly where the bullet is within the case. On some others, notably Blazer cases, that step for lack of a better term is not visible. It has never presented a problem for me however.

 

[tommeboy]

Norma uses a way different alloy than everyone else. I have not measured for thickness between brands but I can feel a difference seating bullets. Norma, ppu, gfl, a usa are ones I run into that feel different. And it is not just 380. Extreme brass I throw away. some of the SIG you have to check primer pockets as I find lots of that brass with no primers in them after firing. All of my brass is range pickups. 99% of the people where I shoot does not reload. All of the reloaders pick up their brass and everything else in reach.