Looking for advise - 20P vs coyotes

[bbassi]

So I have a new 20P, 11 twist, 18" AR, shooting 35 gr Bergers at around 3600fps. Over the last 3 years I've taken a pile of coyotes using the 25gr Bergers out of my 17 Remington, and about 1/2 were bang/flops, but those are doing about 3900. So far this month I've shot 7 with the new 20P and every one has been a runner. I've recovered 5 and all were solid chest shots. I hunt strictly at night so I really appreciate the bang/flops. They make the nights much more enjoyable.

Am I just not pushing the 35's fast enough to get maximum effect? I have notice 3 of the 5 have had exit wounds, usually 3-4 holes on the off side. That NEVER happened with the 17s.

 

[shadrac]

39 grain blitz kings bang flop

 

[Tommie]

You’re not pushing those 35’s hard enough. I’d up the powder charge. Or maybe better yet, switch to 39 or 40 grainers.

 

[fredo]

That 18" barrel sure ain't helping. You're leaving ~300 fps on the table that a 22-24" barrel would allow a 35 Berger...

Everything has a tradeoff, and you're seeing how going short & handy on barrel length has compromised terminal performance. Some cartridge/ bullet combos can still work well when barrel length limits MV, while others don't...

 

[hogpatrol]

Another vote for the 39BKs or use BIB's 40s.

 

[bbassi]

I realize I can certainly go up in bullet weight. My reason for going with the 35s is two fold. First, I have 2K of them, second we shoot more fox than coyotes, and I've had such good luck with the 25gr 17's not blowing fox all to hell yet still having the authority to pole ax coyotes that I was really hoping to make these work. Our fax season starts this week. I guess I'll know more about that shortly. I'm currently running 26gr of H4895 and they are as hot as I feel comfortable with and still get good function in the AR (cycling). Any other suggestions on powders?

 

[hogpatrol]

I realize I can certainly go up in bullet weight. My reason for going with the 35s is two fold. First, I have 2K of them, second we shoot more fox than coyotes, and I've had such good luck with the 25gr 17's not blowing fox all to hell yet still having the authority to pole ax coyotes that I was really hoping to make these work. Our fax season starts this week. I guess I'll know more about that shortly. I'm currently running 26gr of H4895 and they are as hot as I feel comfortable with and still get good function in the AR (cycling). Any other suggestions on powders?

24 grs. of VV133 and 32gr bullets. Functions perfect in my AR platform.

 

[Schism]

As others have said, you need to up the velocity to get the 35 Bergers to bang flop the coyotes. 3800 fps has provided some good results.

I believe one has to expect a few runners when shooting coyotes with 20 cal bullets but your results are more than I would expect. I'm not all that familiar with the 20P. Would a different powder provide more velocity in that bbl length?

 

[fredo]

Would a different powder provide more velocity in that bbl length?

Nope.
And even if ya did find a 'magic' powder that allowed some extra fps, you'd then likely get into a hodgepodge with the AR's gas system. I.E., cycling issues from being over gassed. And that's not to mention how running hot loads that are semi-auto spec. re-sized will affect brass life. Been there, done that!

When you're talkin bout coyote killin', small caliber performance is much more velocity sensitive than when using a larger caliber. If ya lose 200fps from a ~100gr .243 bullet, it's still gonna wreck a coyote. But, if ya lose that much speed from a (.17 or) .20caliber 30-40gr bullet, you just took a real big chunk off the top of their performance potential. Speed is what helps those little pills kill in such an impressive fashion. Take that speed away, and you get what ya get...

 

[fyrewall]

3,900 fps is really flying. Possibly, those Berger jackets might be thick enough to prevent the desired expansion, that with the chest shots, might have missed major bones in Wiley's body. This past year I used some 40 H VMax bullets (controlled expansion?) at 3,700 +- in .20 P and .204R bolt guns on prairie dogs and that lot of bullets just punched through leaving these tiny rodents standing instead the usual flying. Sectioning that lot of bullets might have indicated thicker jackets but that was not done. Perhaps a necrotic look (be sure to glove up) of Wiley's chest and sectioning the bullets might show what happened.

correction - should be 3,600 fps, still fast, but some of the Berger bullets I have used do have thick jackets

 

[AckleymanII]

Hornady makes a 45g sp, I would start there.

 

[sdbob]

That is why I built a 17 rem AR, no pass throughs and all the energy stays in the animal. Bang...dead .My 204 AR would destroy the hids. I had to push the 40 grainers to get the accuracy I wanted. Stayed with 24 inch barrels on my guns.

 

[Webster]

So I have a new 20P, 11 twist, 18" AR, shooting 35 gr Bergers at around 3600fps. Over the last 3 years I've taken a pile of coyotes using the 25gr Bergers out of my 17 Remington, and about 1/2 were bang/flops, but those are doing about 3900. So far this month I've shot 7 with the new 20P and every one has been a runner. I've recovered 5 and all were solid chest shots. I hunt strictly at night so I really appreciate the bang/flops. They make the nights much more enjoyable.

Am I just not pushing the 35's fast enough to get maximum effect? I have notice 3 of the 5 have had exit wounds, usually 3-4 holes on the off side. That NEVER happened with the 17s.

Use bullets that the manufacturer says are extremely explosive. Hornady VMAX, Sierra BlitzKings. It's bullet design not weight.

 

[Knifeman]

I was hunting coyotes with a 204 and 39gr BK's had had splatter hits. Never lost any but had to track them down. Now I'm using a 20 vartarg with 40 gr Berger's there moving At 3650. Have killed 11 from 80-250 yards all dirt naps on the spot. And no exit holes. Try the 40 Berger's

 

[Breakshunter]

The 35 berger is an awesome bang flop coyote bullet, I think you just need to speed them up, they work great for me.