long range hunting

[bassrat]

does anyone have any suggestions for a long range deer rifle 600-800 yds i have been thinking about a 7stw or 300 win mag in a sendero type rifle with a high bc bullet berger vld etc

 

[brian923]

thats a really long way to take game at. but. i would say if you were going to, a hot load like those magnums you mentiond would be the ticket. i would think that they would shoot really flat due to the velocitie. but thats only my opinion. brian

 

[aixenmemphis]

Are you only planning on shooting whitetail or are you planning on taking other game with this rifle,elk, muleys, ect.)? If you plan on getting just one rifle to cover all of your needs you might want to consider a larger 338 cartridge.

 

[shcal]

This is a great site full of info you are seeking. Click on the forums and ask away, they are real long range hunters over there.

Precision Long Range Hunting

 

[pnse]

take a look here
longrange hunting.com

 

[Rustystud]

Bassrat:

You have three concerns here.

The first is clean ethical kills. Most of the center fire rifles 6mm and above can deliver 200 foot pounds of energy at 1000 yards. A deer is about the same body mass as a human and the military defines 200 foot pounds of energy as the minimum.
Bullet design may be paramount in your quest. A bullet for 3000 fps is much tougher than a bullet needed for 1400 fps.

Second, your shooting skills and ranging skills must be up to the task. A 20 yard mistake at 600 yards can mean a miss to the vitals. It would be much better if you have yardage markers and wind flags. A ten mile an hour cross wind can drive a hunting bullet off by 20 feet at 1000 yards. A good rest and practice are ecential.

Third most people think more gun is better. When most people can't shoot more gun. Recoil, muzzle blast, and more velocity don't make guns more accurate. There is a reason the 1000 yard Bench Rest and F-Class shooters are moving away from the big 30s and 7mms. The 6mms and 6.5s with VLD bullets going at 3000 to 3150 fps are more accurate and less punishing to shoot.

I build custom rifles including bean field rifles. All to often I see a customer build a rifle he can not handle. They build a super hot 7mm or 30 caliber. Then they find with a 8 pound rifle it stomps the everloving snot out of them. Then they put on a muzzle brake and the recoil is reduced but the muzzle blast almost rips your clothes off. I will load custom ammunition for them and watch them shoot off my bench. The rifle will shoot less than .5 at 100 yards. The shooter can shoot 1.5 at 100 yards. That amplifies in the field because they don't have a good rest and/or bench. They complain the rifle want shoot when it is the shooter. I am not a super shooter by any means. I had a customer who said his rifle would not shoot. I took a 6 foot by 6 foot 1000 yard F-Class target to his shooting lane. This target has a 3.5 inch X ring and a 7 inch ten ring. I marked off 600 yards with a tape measure. There was no wind and perfect shooting conditions. I asked the customer to shoot five shots at this target. He did and none where inside the 9 ring. I then took his rifle and adjusted it for elevation 14 minutes and shot 3 Xs and 2 tens. I then moved the target two a measured 300 yards. We discussed the elevation. The wind and temperature had picked up the wind was fishtaiing at about 5 miles per hour. I shot first and re adjusted the rifle for proper elevation 3.5 moa. I watched the mirrage and picked my shooting times. I shot five Xs. The customer said this was going to be a snap. His elevation was already set. He shot five rounds and they were both at 9 and 3 o'clock in the 9 rings. This showed the customer it was not the gun or load it was shooter skill. I brought the target into 100 yards. This target has a 3.5 inch X ring and a 7 inch 10 ring. I had the customer shoot the target five times. He had all five in the X ring but they were scattered. I shot five shots and they could be covered by a dime. I gave the customer a 243 Winchester to shoot with no brake. At 100 yards he shot under an inch. We moved back to 300 yards and he shot under 2 inches, we moved again back to 600 yards and he shot under 4 inches.

When you build a longrange gun make sure you really know what you want and need. It will make you much happier and be more responsible. As a hunter you have a duty to project to the non hunter public a immage of being humane. You also owe it to your game to be respectful. I too enjoy long range hunting and wish you great success. But please do your home work first at the range.

Rustystud

 

[ANDY5]

Rustystud,
you hit on the nail head.
andy5

 

[shcal]

Amen Rustystud. One of the reasons I no longer go to my local range is the fact that they allow any size caliber to shoot there. I really got sick and tired of sitting next to these guys that would bring out canons and shoot them at the range. You simply could not shoot next to them and they apparently could not handle them either because at just 100 yds they were shooting all over the place.

I shoot long range - squirrel shooting. My guns of choice are my two 6mm BR's because I absolutely hate recoil. They shoot great and I find the more I shoot the better shooter I become. My new toy is the 6.5 X47 Lapua. This is a carry gun for shooting coyote and pig. I downed a coyote yesterday at 193 yards with 120gr Nosler ballistic tips.

Too much gun will get you into trouble if you cannot handle it. If you have never hunted moving objects at long distances try using a moderate caliber such as the 6mmBR first at long ranges on small targets to hone your shooting skills,hold-overs and wind reading) then, if you feel confident and it is appropriate, work up to larger calibers slowly until you have the appropriate caliber for the job at hand.

 

[robbor]

200 ft#s??? Every recomendation I have seen was for 1000# which would make a 6/243 only good for a max of 500 yards as I recall. If you are planning on shooting deer out 800+ yard you will find that no matter what the energy if you dont have enough speed you wont get expansion. You should be looking at 7/30cal in WSM/RUM/STW/WM size cases. Speed kills, heavy bullets make no diff at less that 600 espically if you are not dealing with lots of wind. You will want to probably stick with about 160grain+ for 7mm and 180grain+ for 30 cal. You will want a good scope 24X at min, heavy long barrel for speed and stability good stiff stock and a low bipod and shoot prone. It will help alot to have a spotter. You need to know your exact velocity,bc,range finder, test it at range,good drop chart, angle shooting info. You can take whatever gun you have,even a 22) and go out and practice long range/angle shooting at all kinds of junk and its very fun to lob 22s at 300-400 yards. Id be looking at WSMs, lots less powder than my rum.

 

[Rustystud]

robbor:

I am not advocating shooting deer at 1000 yards with a 6mm. I just feel it is better to be able to hit your target in the vitals and you need to use enough gun. I hunt long range with a 300 Win Mag with 180 Scirocco bullets running 3150. I can't get them to group any better than the Bergers 210s in my F-Class TR rifle that is in 308. The 180s just shoot flatter with a lot more recoil. On a no wind day with the 300 Win Mag I am lucky to shoot a 10 X 10 group. With the 308 and 210s under the same conditions I regularly shoot 5 X 5 groups. Consider this is a known distance and sighters are used to dial in the rifles. One does not have that luxury when hunting.

Rustystud

 

[memilanuk]

Nat,

Good post! Might want to ammend your target description, though. 1k F-class center is 5" X, 10" 10... in fact I don't know of a HP target,other than maybe the 200yd SR) that has a ~3.5" X, 7" 10. At any rate, you make a good point about people using more gun than they can handle. I certainly would rather someone use a gun they know they can shoot well that might be a tad on the 'light' side, as long as they can stuff them in the vitals, rather than some field howitzer that they're going to end up nicking the animal,if they hit it at all). You have to be able to practice w/ the gun w/o it beating you up. FWIW, the numbers I've generally heard for deer/elk respectively, are 800ft-lbs of energy, and 1000. Less will certainly do it, these are more of a general thumbrule to ensure adequate expansion.

On the flip side of the coin... I come from western Nebraska originally, and spent a *lot* of time shooting small furry critters... specifically prairie dogs. Lots of fun, but the little suckers are amazingly tough customers... they'll get up and run like there is no tomorrow after a hit that would probably have me weeping for my mother. As such... I get a little steamed when I see people talking about shooting prairie dogs,or rock chucks, even tougher) at extended ranges,say, 500-600-700+ yds) with a .223 and match bullets. Yes, the gun is accurate enough. Yes, it probably has enough residual energy left to do the job... with a varmint bullet. Not saying you can't shoot animals w/ match bullets,another big quasi-religious argument), but one needs to be aware of the velocity and whether or not the bullet is going to expand at all or just 'pencil' on thru. Most of the 'kills' on p-dogs @ long range w/ small caliber heavy match bullets were luck at best... they just punch in one side and out the other, and barely even expand in between.

As someone else mentioned... hunters in general, and long-range hunters in particular, need to be aware of the ethical viewpoints of others. They may not agree with them, but I think it's only right to try to dispatch the animals as humanely as possible...

 

[ANDY5]

My father calls me a long range freak. I live for it. Five years ago in Wisconsin my buck took 3 shots all in the kill zone to put him down at 325yds. I took another buck at 280 and it took two in the kill zone to put him down. In my opinion that is extreem for a 243. I see people compareing animals to men. Men go down easy. Animals have will, we should never take that for granted. Clean kills only, now I will use a 243 at 250 yds. thats it. It takes basicly 900 ft pounds to put a deer down cleanly. I stick by that rule now. I have made some very long shots, but one must be lucky and good. In those instances I was both. If one is going to shoot long distance at a animal do it with mercy, head or neck, hit or miss.

 

[M700]

"does anyone have any suggestions for a long range deer rifle 600-800 yds i have been thinking about a 7stw or 300 win mag in a sendero type rifle with a high bc bullet berger vld etc"

http://www.precisionlongrangehunter.com has posters and articles by guys with a ton of experience in long-range hunting. Here on 6mmBR.com there's an article about Ric Horst and his 7mm WSM which he's used for some impressive long-range hunting out in Wyoming. Ric has since upgunned to a .300 WSM I believe.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek064.html

You're going down the right track, looking at Remington's Sendero, which is a nicely built factory rifle, suitable for long range hunting. The two cartridges you mention are highly regarded for long range hunting as well. Both send high BC bullets downrange with authority.

I like the 600 - 800 yard envelope you mention too. Although some guys have made kills at ranges well beyond that, I still think of 600 yards as a long way to shoot in the field, but certainly not unrealistic in decent conditions, with good gear and a practiced shooter. Shawn Carlock in Idaho actually teaches a long-range hunting course. There's a number of guys who build custom long-range hunting rifles when you're ready to upgrade that Sendero, but I think it's a great factory rifle that should serve you well. The only beefs I had with my Sendero were:

1. Tough & gritty factory trigger. Easy to fix.
2. Rough bore that fouled quickly.
3. I needed a stock pack or something similar to raise the comb enough for a proper cheek weld while shooting.

Otherwise it was a fine rifle, with plenty of accuracy at range.

The Berger bullets you mention have gained quite a following among the LR hunting crowd. They're not only accurate, but do a fine job of dropping game. I'm a big fan of the Nosler Ballistic tip for the same reasons, accuracy and great performance on game at longer ranges where velocity has dropped off.

Andy5 - out here, a 300 yard shot is considered normal & routine. My 13 year old son's first deer was taken with one shot at 275 yards with a little 6mm Remington. There's just an awful lot of open ground and a lack of cover in some parts of the west, making a 300 yard shot pretty much normal. I understand the same thing happens back east and down south in some agricultural areas, hence the "Beanfield Rifle."

Regards, Guy

 

[people]

Either one of the Cals mentioned will do the trick.