Loaded 6xc IMR 4451

[HoldOver]

Due to an unreliable supply of H4350 I pulled the trigger on some IMR 4451 (supposedly comparable to 4350) gonna give it a try in the 6xc and will post results if favorable. Curious of others results

 

[Frankr]

I experimented briefly with IMR4451 in my 6XC 1-7 twist 26" 115 Berger HVLD's.. shooting 200 yards in cold weather from 6 deg F to 30 deg F I could not get it to shoot well for me. If I pushed anything over 2,950 FPS I had high pressure and dusted a few Norma cases. I got about 3,005 to 3,020 FPS but had pressure. Poor groups 1 1/2 to 2" at 200 yards.
Kind of the same thing I get with H4350 but H4350 shoots well it is just slow out of a short 26" tube. But IMR4451 took 43.0 grs to dust a case about 41.5 grs was max. H4350 takes around 41.0 to show that kind of pressure. I think around 40.5 gr H4350 shoots well in mine at 2,900 FPS..I have been trying to get a solid load with good speed from extreme cold temp up into the 80's Deg F...So far RL17 is the best I have found. I have been shooting RL23 in it at 6 deg F I got 3,020 FPS no pressure at all and about 3/4"5 shot group outside measurement at 200 yards now if it stays consistent and as the weather warms up and it still groups well and the velocity does not go much more than 3,050 or so I will be happy.
I have got 3,100 FPS with RL17 and it shoots well. RL26 produced 3,150 FPS but I could not get it to group well but it maybe the RL26 Likes a REM 9 1/2 primer and I did not try them(yet)..But its fun..
You may get IMR4451 to shoot in warmer weather or your rifle may just like it but mine did not make enough velocity or group well enough..I also shot some S&B primers and I found them to be on the small side, go in a new case easy and a case with the pocket cut they go in too deep..Good numbers but too small. I am going back to the BR2's.

 

[AckleymanII]

I bet that IMR 4451 may do a lot better with a cci 250 primer....just a gut feeling.

 

[jr600yd]

Like you I've had problems getting H-4350. Tried some AA-4350, little slower than they H but not as slow as 4831. Had no problem getting to 3,000 - 3050 fps using Fed 210M pushing 107 SMK's

 

[HoldOver]

Interesting info FJIM. Currently I'm using BR2 primers with 4831 SC at 40.2 gr giving me 3039fps but showing signs of pressure. (I've never been able to produce a decent group with it). I'm shooting 108 Bergers with a 1:8 twist. When I was shooting H4350 I was using 105 Target BT with 38.1 gr. and have had the best groups the gun ever shot.
For the 4451 I've started out at 37 gr and going to work up to 38.0 gr using .2 increments.

Ackleymannll
What are your thoughts behind the CCI 250 for the 6xc?

Thanks
Nolan

 

[Frankr]

I bet that IMR 4451 may do a lot better with a cci 250 primer....just a gut feeling.

I have tried some cci 250's with the RL26 all I got was high pressure. No primer was going to make the velocity but could change group size. I know two guys shooting RL26 in 7mags and I witnessed the rifle shoot poorly then he switched to a rem 91/2M and it cut bullet holes at 200 yards. I have had a few rifle that my best groups have come with rem 9 1/2 primers. I though I might try a load of 26 with a rem primer. But my rifle is used mostly for hunting so I feel I need at least 3,050 FPS where as if I was just punching paper if it shot well at 2,900 I would not care. yep RL17 has produced the best velocity and decent groups so far and it can be alittle inconsistent so can I. I want to shoot some more RL23 Good groups,NO pressure decent velocity in extreme cold weather shooting a full case of the 23 42.5 and 43.0grs of the stuff I will find out how temp stable it is.. not by playing around with coolers and leaving rounds in a heated car but by actual outside temp me the ammo and rifle all the same temp.

 

[LitLBoy]

7828SSC and BR-2's 105BH about 41.5 plus or minus 2/10's grain 3100 FPS
LitLBoy

 

[Frankr]

7828SSC and BR-2's 105BH about 41.5 plus or minus 2/10's grain 3100 FPS
LitLBoy

litLboy I have some 7828ssc I just never tried it. Have you shot any in cold weather like we have now?
I really don't care what the experts say I actually been out there at -20 deg F with the ammo,rifle at ambient temperature to 30 def F 60 deg F 80 deg F and in my 6.5 creedmoore and my 6XC the RL17 has produced the same velocity or with in 30 FPS or so...Just amazing My 1-8 twist 6XC with a 105 VLD will hold the same velocity across the temp swing with RL17 ..It also produces some of the best velocity but I will admit this 1-7 twist with the 115 has been a little more finicky. But the RL17 will work...I just seen what kind of velocity RL26 gave me with no pressure 3,150 FPS but it did not group well at 200 yards but I may still try some backed off the high edge.
I wonder why people say the RL17 is temp sensitive and hard to keep in tune? As myself and a few others I know have had the same temp stable results. I suggest a few people go out and chrony some H4350 at actual outside temperature and you will find between 30 deg F and 80 deg F 125 FPS gain or loss...Oh no we cant have that it's extreme no need to test it..

 

[HoldOver]

So I made it out today and shot some groups with the IMR 4451. Started at 37.0 gr and worked up to 38.0 gr. Didnt expierance any heavy bolt lift and the primers look pretty decient.
I did experience one pierced primer on my first shot at 37.0 gr. I have also had this happen using 4831 SC @ 3039 fps. Could this be from something other than pressure? (being that 37.0 is more than likely not a hot load). I am also into the lands .20".
Didn't have access to a chronograph today so no info there, but I'm going to try and jump .10" using 37.4 -37.8 as these seem to hold the most potential for now.

All shots were prone with bipod and rear bag

 

[LitLBoy]

No haven't shot in cold weather with the 7828ssc maybe down to 45 or so. When I test this time of year it is out the loading room window, so ammo is room temp. I'll try some in the frig then shoot it cold and see what it does.
LitLBoy

 

[Frankr]

So I made it out today and shot some groups with the IMR 4451. Started at 37.0 gr and worked up to 38.0 gr. Didnt expierance any heavy bolt lift and the primers look pretty decient.
I did experience one pierced primer on my first shot at 37.0 gr. I have also had this happen using 4831 SC @ 3039 fps. Could this be from something other than pressure? (being that 37.0 is more than likely not a hot load). I am also into the lands .20".
Didn't have access to a chronograph today so no info there, but I'm going to try and jump .10" using 37.4 -37.8 as these seem to hold the most potential for now.

All shots were prone with bipod and rear bag

It is hard to tell the size of the groups as I don't know how big the target bull is. What is the Barrel length? Scope ?
But I can tell the distance between the bullet holes does not look good for 100 yards but then I have seen bug holes at 100 yards be 2 to 3" at 200 yards and I have seen groups at 100 yards you might have walked away from shoot great at 200 yards and beyond...I never shoot groups at 100 yards much anymore. Once I have a solid load at 200 I stretch it to 500 then 700 then 8,9,then 1K although I had a good tune at 700 that I never fired it at 1K but I know I missed a lot at 8,9 with it so I just cap it at 700. I also never due load development with out a chrony..
How do you think it did Nolan? I look for bolt lift, flat primers,ejector marks on the case head and judge primer pocket tightness as pressure signs...My 1-8 XC did not hum with H4350 till I hit 40.5 grs of it with a 105 VLD It was like 3,050 FPS at 80 degF .I personally think 38.0 is a light load but then a chrony would tell the story if it was going 2,850 FPS.

I mean if I shoot the load and the bolt opens easy there are no ejector marks on the case head and the primers go in tight, then fired again and the primer pockets stay tight I would say I have a load that is not too hot in my rifle.

I will also say I have never experienced a pierced primer but I have had primers fall out the back of the case when I opened the bolt.Just had a S&B primer fall out the back of a Norma XC case the other day 42.5 IMR4451. I shot it bolt lifted hard and primer was laying on top of the mag. I scraped the case. but them S&B primers are small to start with. But its not the first time I have done it. But I have never blown or pierced a primer.

 

[HoldOver]

FJIM

Im running a Krieger 28" with a Vortex PST 6-24
I measured the closest group and it was .43"
The red center bull is just under 1/2 MOA. I'm not sure why I had so much windage variation on a couple of the groups, (not much wind today) but there seems to be somewhat of a node with 37.4 through 37.8


I have thought about next time shooting off a bench instead of bipod just to take some variables out of play. I also have a Tubb speedlock firing pin on order incase something is wrong with my firing pin. I just don't understand why it would pierce a primer at 37.0 vs 38.0 if it were a pressure issue?

Thanks
Nolan

 

[LitLBoy]

FJIM
Shot 7 rds. today over a Magnetospeed. Norma - BR-2 - 41.7/7828ssc - BH 105 normal MV = 3100fps. Rds. went in the chamber "frosty" after being in the freezer 45 min. Accuracy didn't seem up to par but chalked that up to the rds. having frost on them. Vel. average was 2950 --- SD was 11 but only because first rd. recorded quite high. throw out that first rd. and SD would have been 7. Vel. loss "yes" but I would call the results pretty stable.
LitLBoy

 

[Frankr]

LitLboy I don't understand are you saying you lost 150 FPS from normal ?

 

[LitLBoy]

That is what the test showed --- lost 150fps. But the vel. shot to shot was very consistant.
LitLBoy
I'll try some room temp. ammo next see what it does.

 

[LitLBoy]

Major Brain Fart This load was a 3000 FPS load ---- only lost 50 fps. Sorry for the screw up
LitLBoy

 

[Frankr]

That is the problem I run into as a hunting rifle I may be out there at 6am and have to shoot at 3PM and my rifle and ammo is at 30 deg or even colder..Now 150 FPS is around 4" more drop at 500 yards but worse than that is 150 FPS can say take you from a 2" group at 500 to 7" group now with more drop you could be 10 to 12" from your point of aim.
Its a big deal..That is why I shoot year round and test in the cold weather. Ideal is a load that produces good velocity and stays consistent and does not lose velocity in the cold weather until you hit extreme cold like Zero to below .
So far RL17 has worked...30 deg F to 80 deg F My 8 twist XC with a 105 at 3,150 FPS is with in the ES. But I have been playing with RL23 in the 1-7 with the 115's. Reason I don't shoot H4350 I have is because it lost 125 FPS from 80 to 30 deg..Testing RL17 in my 6.5 creedmoore from 90 deg F Slight pressure to -20 deg F it lost 75 FPS but from 80 to 30 it was with in the ES of 20 FPS. The effectiveness of the 105 HVLD as a hunting round at 3,150 FPS Out of the XC is just awesome. 7 whitetails have fell to it in the last two seasons. Plus it is fun to play at the range,G Hog hunt.coyote hunt ect ect..

 

[Gina1]

The magic 6XC load for me 39.0 grains H4831SC, Berger 105 Hybrid, 30/1000 off the lands, CCI BR2 primer. No pressure signs !!