Load recommendation for 178 Hornady, M14, 1:11" twist *Load Development Update*

[tonyben]

I need to work up some loads for my 1:11" twist Wolfe 5R barrel. I've got some 178's and various powders to choose from.

RL15
I-4895
I-4064
Varget
I-3031
I-8208 XBR
H4895
W748

What powder should I be leaning toward and what charge to get me to 2550 PFS? Using LC brass, BR-2 primers.

Thanks,
Tony.

 

[memo43]

Re: Load recommendation for 178 Hornady, M14, 1:11" twist, 22" barrel

Will you be shooting these at mag length or single shot.
An lastly will they be for plinking or competition

 

[tonyben]

Re: Load recommendation for 178 Hornady, M14, 1:11" twist, 22" barrel

Preferably mag length. This is for precision. I just built my dream gun and it's shooting very well. I want to shoot it out to 1000 yards. I built it myself just for that purpose.

Here are some initial groups at 100yds...
5-shots at 100 yds with M118LR 0.329"










I haven't bedded it yet, nor uinitized the gas cylinder. It's running a Sadlak vented gas piston. Scope used was a Leupold MK4 ER/T 4-14.5x50, FFP, M1 Turrets.







It's in a GI fiberglass stock for now, but it will be bedded into a carbon graphite kevlar match stock in about 2 weeks. Eventually, it will go into a JAE Gen 3 stock.

It has a Jon Wolfe modified medium weight 5R/20 barrel.

I used this rifle as the model when I made this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck4Tp9EeOrU&feature=gp-n-o&google_comment_id=z133vdxhmriqgrrqg04cd1i43kbgu1pgim40k

Barrel timing is good and I set the headspace to 1.6325"

Tony.

 

[memo43]

Re: Load recommendation for 178 Hornady, M14, 1:11" twist, 22" barrel

nice set up to include future set up, one thing to take into consideration will be pressure and the op rod. Your 178 will they be the AMAX or something else

 

[tonyben]

Re: Load recommendation for 178 Hornady, M14, 1:11" twist, 22" barrel

nice set up to include future set up, one thing to take into consideration will be pressure and the op rod. Your 178 will they be the AMAX or something else

Thanks! I have both Hornady FMJBT's and A-Max's. I also have some 175 SMK's and some Berger 168 & 185 hybrids to try. This is new ground for me. I will be running with a smaller hole drilled in my OFF position of the spindle valve as well as drilling a hole in my gas plug to vent some pressure. It also runs the Sadlak vented gas piston.

Thanks!

Tony.

 

[Wildcats]

Re: Load recommendation for 178 Hornady, M14, 1:11" twist, 22" barrel

I got excellent results years ago from 3031 in my Supermatch gun with 168s. was running 40-41 gr. .2 increments,depending on the temp.

 

[jbarron]

Re: Load recommendation for 178 Hornady, M14, 1:11" twist, 22" barrel

I think you will need closer to 2650 fps for 1000 yrds to stay supersonic.

Last I tried my standard load of SIE 175 and 42.2grs I4064 was not fast enough.
Varget ~45grs was better.

 

[tonyben]

Re: Load recommendation for 178 Hornady, M14, 1:11" twist, 22" barrel

Here's a full update on my 178 grain load development...

Talk about a great day at the range! I took a couple of friends out to the range yesterday and met M14forum member bfoosh006 at the range for a fun day of shooting and chrono data collection.

My goal was to shoot some M118LR through my new build and to chrono the data so i could build up a load. Things I changed since my last outing was was swapping stocks and fixing a loose operating rod guide. I glued my operating rod guide with red loc-tite and it seems to have held very well. I took my old LRB M14SA out of its carbon graphite kevlar stock and fitted my M25 into it. I got better lockup and draw pressure.

All shots fired semi-auto (gas valve on).



I also mounted my M14SA into a SAGE stock and used the CASM mount to see what kind of results I would get.

(This is one of my guests, not me)


I loaded 5 batches of handloads using RL15, LC brass, 178gr Hornady match loaded to 2.850". Load charges were 10 rounds of 42.0gr, 42.5gr, 43.0gr and 43.5gr. I had a batch of 43.8gr but I didn't have the cojones to try that load after chronographing the previous loads.

I shot 2 strings of 5 shots each of XM80 ball through the M25/5R rifle.

String 1: ES-11, Average-2879, SD-4.
2882
2884
2883
2877
2873

String 2 (different box of ammo): ES-15, Average-2844, SD-4
2842
2839
2843
2846
2854

I then shot XM80 through my LRB with a 22" 1:12" twist CM barrel in the SAGE stock using ammo from the same box as string number 2 listed above.
ES-62, Average 2788, SD-23.5
2769
2806
2752
2799
2814

This gave me approximately 56FPS of velocity gain just from using the 5R barrel.

I then shot 5 rounds of M118LR through the M14SA. Average velocity was 2609fps, ES-35, SD-13.
2595
2595
2613
2612
2630

I then shot 5 rounds of M118LR through the M25/5R. Average velocity was 2652fps, ES-36, SD-12.1. Group size was 1.183"
2644
2635
2671
2658
2655

The 5R barrel gave me a free velocity gain of 43fps.

I then started chronographing my 178gr hand loads to give me a starting point for my handloads.
42.0 grains gave me a 1.763" group with an average velocity of 2556fps

42.5 grains gave me a 1.235" group with an average velocity of 2609fps

43.0 grains gave me a 1.282" group with an average velocity of 2678fps

43.5 grains gave me 3 shots of 2742, 2726 and 2727. I decided not to tempt fate and stopped there.



I ran some Speer 125gr TNT's through my M25. I loaded 11 rounds and the first round had a different POI than the rest. The next 10 landed in a 0.931" group!

So I adjusted the scope so that POI was the same as POA using a 10-round group which measured 1.204". I don't have a unitized gas cylinder and the stock is not bedded. It was only cleared of enough material around the receiver legs to fully seat the action in the stock. Trigger guard lockup is the tightest I've ever had. I actually had to switch trigger groups from my old LRB to get the action to lock down. My other trigger group wouldn't work.



It all worked out okay because the trigger group that I put on my LRB in the SAGE actually drew down the heel enough so there wasn't a gap. Originally, before the swap, there was a slight heel gap.

Tony.

 

[Minesweeper3433]

Before I got rid of my M14 I was actually getting amazing results with the 178grn factory ammo from hornady. Gun loved it.

 

[hogan]

M1a/M14 or AR-10 pattern rifles are chambered for the 168gr BTHP at magazine seat oal.

175gr SMK and heavier hornady BTHP bullets will also work, but VLD bullets not recommended. Maybe they can be made to work? Yet deep seating escalates pressure and can alter the pressure dwell time that proper operation requires.

That said, I have loaded 180gr Grand Slam ammo for my AR-10. The bullet is short and functions fine at mag length. A-Max and other VLD bullets are not endorsed for magazine oal use in these rifles. Single loading? Sure!