To all the tuner users do you load develope with tuner off first ? I just started using an Ezell tuner and went from 54.2gr to 56.8 in .2 gr increments (284 shehane ) and see no POI shift ? SD on all loads seemed off using magneto speed chron ( 15-20 SD ) Bullet was 184 hybrid 20 thou off . Any ideas or help would be appreciated.
Load developement with tuner
- Thread starter Ackley Kid
- Start date
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Id ask mr ezell for the latest method. He does a very good job keeping up with what works. @gunsandgunsmithing
Keith Glasscock
Gold $$ Contributor
I developed with my Ezell tuner installed, but out 1 turn from the shoulder.
Never tried it the other way.
Never tried it the other way.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
It won't matter that much where you have the tuner set to start, it's merely a reference point. The specific tuner adjustment path you take isn't as important as where the tuner setting ends up; i.e. you can approach a good tuner setting from ether direction. You definitely want to have the tuner attached to the barrel though (i.e. - not removed) while doing your initial load workup. I start with the tuner screwed all the way down; for the style of tuner I'm using, the harmonics will basically be the same as having a barrel without a tuner. Regardless of where you have the tuner set to start, keep it at that fixed point while you do your charge weight/seating depth load workup. Once you are satisfied with charge weight and seating depth, use that load and adjust the tuner in or out, depending on where you had it set to start. You should find your sweet spot within one single full turn of the tuner. As noted above - simply contact Mike and he will provide you with the specific protocol he finds to work best for his tuner setup.
dcali
Bullet Maker
I use one of Mike’s tuners. I start with it about one turn out, with the zero facing up as a baseline. Mark the barrel with a sharpie as a reference. I then pick a reasonable charge weight based on experience. Or lacking that, what quickload says will give complete combustion, good velocity, near max pressure, and a full case. You may need to test these if you’re starting blind.
Then do a full seating depth test in .010 increments going back until you see a good spot. Once you’ve got a good depth, start dialing the tuner one tick at a time. It doesn’t take more than a few ticks to find the optimum where groups are small and round. Different barrels will be more or less sensitive, but try one tick at a time to start out.
You need to have “pretty good” groups before you start playing with the tuner. It’s not going to take a totally out of tune load and make it good. It will cut out that last bit of tweaking with seating depth. With my rifle, getting within five to ten thou of the optimum is close enough to start using the tuner.
Usually that works for my purposes, which is primarily F TR with a .308
Then do a full seating depth test in .010 increments going back until you see a good spot. Once you’ve got a good depth, start dialing the tuner one tick at a time. It doesn’t take more than a few ticks to find the optimum where groups are small and round. Different barrels will be more or less sensitive, but try one tick at a time to start out.
You need to have “pretty good” groups before you start playing with the tuner. It’s not going to take a totally out of tune load and make it good. It will cut out that last bit of tweaking with seating depth. With my rifle, getting within five to ten thou of the optimum is close enough to start using the tuner.
Usually that works for my purposes, which is primarily F TR with a .308
Mike has said to start one turn out I believe . Numbers on chron maybe be bunk as I’ve had this happen before with magneto , just requires a battery change . Thanks for all your input much appreciated.
avidflyer
Gold $$ Contributor
Correct Mike likes A HALF TO FULL TURN OUT. Personally I don’t like the half and start with a full.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Don't be surprised if you find 4-6 tunes in a revolution. Then the decisions begin.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Something just occurred to me. You mentioned using a MagnetoSpeed in your original post. Was this concurrent with testing the tuner? The MagnetoSpeed hanging off the barrel will most definitely affect group size/shape, and point of impact. It's basically like a having a tuner that you can't adjust. If you were trying to set the tuner with the MS attached, it's worth revisiting with the MS removed.
Not trying to tune just OCW right now . Groups are good just numbers on MS are all crap 15-20 SD on 3 shot groups . I’m thinking problem with MS . Point of impact doesn’t change all through charge weight , I’m one turn out and have adjusted nothing on tuner . Will borrow my buddies lab radar and try again . I’ve had issues with MS when battery gets low ( had crazy numbers on proven load , battery fixed that ) . With tuner on it doesn’t have much clearance in front of bayonet . May try and install it right on tuner ? Just wondering if someone has been here done that already as it doesn’t hurt to ask . Will change battery and go from there . Thanks fellas
I'll clarify my above statement. With a new chambering I will load up a spread of coarse charges and shoot over a MS or LR to find the charge that gets me closest to my target velocity (based upon other's experience with that chambering/bullet). Once I get a load developed I measure the Vavg over 8-10 shots. If precision falls off later I can shoot over a chrony to see if the barrel is losing velocity and make appropriate changes to get back in the node. I have done my share to pay salaries at Bartlein and Kreiger chasing numbers on my Labradar
.Think you nailed it with that statement . I’ve never used a tuner so kinda struggling with out numbers to verify what I see . Like you had mentioned I use velocity as a base so when barrel breaks / speeds up I can adjust powder accordingly to get back to sweet spot , and push it when barrels getting tired . Running OCW with some kind of chron is good as you can get the best of both worlds ( grouping and velocity numbers ) . Sometimes with short 3-4 shot groups the es / sd can be deceiving but if it’s repeatable then it’s money in the bank ( 10-15 shot SD data ) I find more times than not that the numbers trend with the nodes but the es of 3 not necessarily being the best as many have stated . Move on to seating depth and keep stretching the distance and tweak . My understanding of tuners is it widens your node / dampens harmonics so may break the rules and tune naked barrel first . Thanks to all for sharing your hard earned info . Appreciate everyone’s input .
I have a Left Hand Browning A Bolt 338 Win Mag with a tuner on it that is also a muzzle brake. I hand load, set the tuner and worked up a load. I may speak heresy but seems to me the tuners are for those who shoot factory ammunition, and do not hand load. Mine shoots about 3/4" at 100 yards.
Many of us are looking for 1/4" or less at 100 yards.
Hello friends, I speak from Spain, Europe.
I recently manufactured a tuner with a weight of 6 pounds (170 grams). I already had a developed load and I installed the tuner, looking to further refine this load ...
Before, I tried that my load worked well that day without the tuner. Tested with a closed group less than 1/2 moa. I screwed, until the end, the tuner and probe groups of 3 shots, on balances of 0.2 in a full rotation of 12 ... And my surprise was disappointing ... The first thing I noticed was that I went from 850 ms of speed to 860 ms, so I won almost 10 ms with the tuner ... I think this changed my node up, because the groups with the tuner were worse than without it. There were groups open three shots and others two shots overlapped and one outside the group ...
My question is, if I gain speed with a tuner, I lost the node and that's why I no longer group. And if I have to do the new load and make the node with the tuner already screwed ...
Thank you.
I recently manufactured a tuner with a weight of 6 pounds (170 grams). I already had a developed load and I installed the tuner, looking to further refine this load ...
Before, I tried that my load worked well that day without the tuner. Tested with a closed group less than 1/2 moa. I screwed, until the end, the tuner and probe groups of 3 shots, on balances of 0.2 in a full rotation of 12 ... And my surprise was disappointing ... The first thing I noticed was that I went from 850 ms of speed to 860 ms, so I won almost 10 ms with the tuner ... I think this changed my node up, because the groups with the tuner were worse than without it. There were groups open three shots and others two shots overlapped and one outside the group ...
My question is, if I gain speed with a tuner, I lost the node and that's why I no longer group. And if I have to do the new load and make the node with the tuner already screwed ...
Thank you.
dcali
Bullet Maker
I can’t imagine what would cause a velocity increase when you add add a tuner. Maybe it was a temperature change or some other factor?
It is not surprising that a good load becomes a bad one when the tuner is added, but you should be able to get it back into tune if the tuner is able to be adjusted the proper amount.
I’m not exactly clear on how much you are turning the tuner and what the pitch of the threads are, but the weight seems ok. (I assume you mean ounces not pounds! Welcome to the imperial system.) on a heavy long barrel it does not take very much movement of the tuner to get it right - maybe 1/16 turn for my rifle with Mike’s tuner. (7 ounces, 32 threads per inch. I shoot a 28” heavy Palma barrel.
it may be that the tuner isn’t being adjusted finely enough. How long is the barrel? What is the contour? And what is the thread pitch on the tuner?
It is not surprising that a good load becomes a bad one when the tuner is added, but you should be able to get it back into tune if the tuner is able to be adjusted the proper amount.
I’m not exactly clear on how much you are turning the tuner and what the pitch of the threads are, but the weight seems ok. (I assume you mean ounces not pounds! Welcome to the imperial system.) on a heavy long barrel it does not take very much movement of the tuner to get it right - maybe 1/16 turn for my rifle with Mike’s tuner. (7 ounces, 32 threads per inch. I shoot a 28” heavy Palma barrel.
it may be that the tuner isn’t being adjusted finely enough. How long is the barrel? What is the contour? And what is the thread pitch on the tuner?
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