LnL AP Progressive - Not enough sizing

[bpm990d]

So I have about 15K pieces of 5.56mm range brass that has all been deprimed, wet tumbled and dried. I normally load on my rock chucker but that would be crazy to do with this many cases. I've had this progressive press for about 10 years and never really used it for rifle stuff, so I decided to get a case feeder and have at it.

because this is unsorted range brass, I want to use my Reading SB die. I've got it screwed all the way down and it does not seem to be touching the headspace. I've got a Mo's gauge and the cases are all coming out just like they went in. +6, +5, +7...

I'm using One Shot and that seems to work just fine when I screw the die into my Rock Chucker. Cases will come out 0, +1, +2...

Anyone experience anything like this? Seems like the press just does not have enough force to push the case all the way into the die or maybe the shell plate is tipping. I only have two dies in the press. Station one is my Reading SB die and Station two is a Sinclair mandrel. No need to decap since these have had the primers knocked out already.

B

 

[Ray123]

I don't use the progressive presses for resizing rifle cases...only pistol cases. I have 4 active progressive presses 2 dillion, 2 hornady, plus a RCBS that has been retired. I resize all rifle cases in the Rockchucker or Forester single stage ...do a thousand or two at a time...never had a problem. I clean cases, size and deprime in FL die in Forester or Rockchucker single stage, swage primer pockets if needed, wet tumble, dry,..then load in progressive. A neck mendrel can be used in the sizing station on new brass, if wanted. As far as small base both my 5.56 and 308 are "regular" sizing dies not small base which I have 2 one in 6mm arc not purchased on purpose but came that way everyone at the local store. I have no problem with regular FL dies sizing any military brass used in a variety of bolts and AR 10, and AR15...machinegun? All military can be semi or burst or machinegun, noone would be able to tell...but they very widely because of worn and almost out of spec or slightly out of spec chambers...no go chamber is still good in the military, a field gauge should bring the weapon in for repair... but it can go beyond that in emergency situations...like the government has better areas to spend the tax dollars...like solar energy panels. The small base die only took the base down .0005 on the one I checked thats 5 ten thousanths of an inch, smaller than a normal die... not much but it'll make a sloppy round in the spec chamber. My take and what I do as of now...may not be for you. And if the shell plate is flexing and they do...but yours seem excessive...its hard to say without looking at it. Machine (or grind) with carbide tool .005 off the bottom of the die will move the shoulder down ...if it still doesn't move there are probably other problems.

 

[6bra1k]

i use to be in the once fired brass biz. i have size 1000's of 556/223 cases for commercial reloading. dillon 550, lee de prime die in station 1, small base die in 2, a couple of squirts of lube in a gallon ziploc bag with 300 or so cases.
then to a trimmer, either a dillon in a press or a shoulder based cutter in a lathe. get some real tools and size to min spec not some gage. almost all ar fired brass requires trimming, mil brass shot auto or machine gun always will grow.
fix your process make sure you have brass in all locations when setting the dies.

 

[big5ifty]

... use my Reading SB die. I've got it screwed all the way down and it does not seem to be touching the headspace.

The problem is the die.

It's not a problem, it's a feature, and you're meant to use it with the competition shellholder set , as I understand it.

I have had the same issue with a Redding small body die in .243, and prior to that in .308.

I was not prepared to buy the competition shellholder set, so I don't use Redding dies for sizing anymore.

A Lee sizing die does the job perfectly, even with semi auto range brass.

 

[mac86951]

I've had similar problems on my LnL AP.

Things to look for:
1. it's less about shell plate tipping as the case head is supported by the large plate RAM; however, since you mentioned it, notice the shell plate reliefs for dies? What happens if the Redding die is a larger diameter at case mouth than the shell plate relief?
Recommended solution, get a Hornady die.

2. Inspect your LnL quick change bushings, both the ones on the die, and the inserts in the press. My press inserts weren't hardened right, or other manf. Defect and they crumbled and chipped at the shoulder if i was trying to do any real "sizing" duty. I resolved this by unthreading the quick change bushings from the sizing location of the press, and exchanged it with RCBS threaded bushing from Rock chucker.

3. Die body length, in comparison of RCBS to LnL AP, the LnL has approx 0.290" longer of a thru-bore on the top of the press to reach the bottom of the shell "holder". I machined a spacer so that i could take a die and set it up on my RCBS, then switch it over to my LnL AP for fine tuning. Some Lee dies don't have enough length to fit the LNL AP, and some RCBS dies are down to the last 1/8 thread. You can check this by removing the locking ring on your die and seeing how much farther it goes... Solution, back to #1 above.

I hate to have to recommend it, as my Redding 6.5 grendel die is my fav, but it flat out doesn't work in my LnL AP, so a new Hornady die solved my set up problems. Perhaps yours are similar.

Good luck!
-Mac

 

[divingin]

Take a flashlight, run a lubed case into the die, and maneuver yourself to see the shellplate/die interface. I suspect you'll find a sizeable gap there. That gap can be caused by: Die/shellplate interference, press flex/stretch (tipping of the shellplate mount, or stretching of the press frame), insufficient lube (exacerbates both of the previous things.)

If you can't get to where you can see that interface, put some plasticene or play-doh in the die relief cutout of the shellplate, and size a piece of brass. The die base should push down to metal if it's actually making contact.

 

[Doug Casner]

Ive got a 550 dillon I have to run 5.56 cases through a full length rcbs sizer before I run them through the 550. Ive checked my dillon die. Its down as far as it will go without hitting. You could probably shoot them in a bolt not an ar. Doug

 

[6bra1k]

The problem is the die.

It's not a problem, it's a feature, and you're meant to use it with the competition shellholder set , as I understand it.

I have had the same issue with a Redding small body die in .243, and prior to that in .308.

I was not prepared to buy the competition shellholder set, so I don't use Redding dies for sizing anymore.

A Lee sizing die does the job perfectly, even with semi auto range brass.

sorry but i call BS, comp dies have been out much longer than the comp shell holders and the sb dies have been out even longer...my redding sb dies work fine in the shell plate of a dillon and shell holders in single stage presses

 

[6bra1k]

Ive got a 550 dillon I have to run 5.56 cases through a full length rcbs sizer before I run them through the 550. Ive checked my dillon die. Its down as far as it will go without hitting. You could probably shoot them in a bolt not an ar. Doug

something wrong with your setup or process. i have done 1000's of once fired 223/556 brass in my dillons.
i process and then load two separate jobs

 

[bpm990d]

Gawd I was up so late the other night futzing with this thing! Thanks for all the replies, including forum boss that replied to me in the middle of the night. Utilizing this LNL press for rifle brass has opened a whole set of challenges but the fly in the ointment was not somthing I'd see before.

The die wasn't screwed all the way down and it wasn't touching the shell plate. The Reading small base die has an issue with the threads cut on it. I don't think they are full depth threads all the way to the top, probably the last third are wonky. When I was screwing it down to touch the shell plate, it would "bottom out" but in reality is wasn't touching the shellplate, the hard stop was on the threads. I ended up using the die to lap the threads in the LnL bushing to get it to thread all the way down. The coarse grit in a NECO fire lapping kit worked it magic.

It's not that particular LnL bushing either, I checked it on a few that I had lying around and they all had that issue. This is how high the lock ring is when it's properly set. It seats much deeper than on either of my other two single stage presses (Rock Chucker & Classic Cast). The lock ring is just about out of threads when it's properly set.

With regards to my process, I needed to make sure all the range brass was sized enough. Some of this stuff is fine and comes out +4 or +5 on a Mo's gauge but some were really blown out to +20. Brass I use in my Service Rifle comes out +4 or +5. With the small base die properly set, it will bring the cartridge headspace back to about +2 which is right where I want it. There is a very slight cam over.

That being said, I did change the lube to Dillon spray lube. What a difference it made, probably only 25% of the force needed. Iv'e been happy with One-Shot for sizing on my Rock Chucker but it didn't work on this set up.

These are some of the unsized cases that were measured with my Mo's gauge.

The gauge is basically an RCBS Precision Mic.

Here is the one that was blown way out to +21.

If you put a headspace GO Gauge in there it will basically come out as 0. Mine is a little wonky and it comes out +2.

Thanks again for all the replies. It sounds silly but the most obvious thing was the issue and having someone say make sure really helped me diagnose this.

B

 

[DiffEQ]

Anyone experience anything like this? Seems like the press just does not have enough force to push the case all the way into the die or maybe the shell plate is tipping. I only have two dies in the press. Station one is my Reading SB die and Station two is a Sinclair mandrel. No need to decap since these have had the primers knocked out already.

B

The shell ram platten, the aluminum block that the shell plate rides on, tips. I could see it on my press, which means its >10 thou difference.
I resorted doing only pistol, and then got rid of it.
Much happier, and not going crazy with wildly varying OAL, as the third owner of something blue.

 

[big5ifty]

sorry but i call BS, comp dies have been out much longer than the comp shell...

The fact still remains and refuses to go away.

I have two redding body dies not able to bump brass for the correct headspace in two of my rifles even bottomed out to the shell holder. The Lee dies do.

 

[jepp2]

That being said, I did change the lube to Dillon spray lube. What a difference it made, probably only 25% of the force needed.

I've never used One Shot, but I use Boot Leg which is supposed to be the Dillon case lube knock off. Absolutely LOVE the stuff. The other thing I do is polish the interior of all my sizing dies. Not to remove material (they are way too hard for that to happen easily - I know I hone die necks to the diameter I want). I find with Boot Leg, the polish of the die reduces the sizing effort another 50%. Hardly feel any resistance and on a Redding Big Boss I can feel it bump the shoulder when sizing.

I use a Redding small base body die for my 223 and I have no issue moving the shoulder back as much as I want and I do not use the Competition shell holders. Just a normal Redding shell holder.

To the OP, thank you for posting what you found and taking the time to thank the folks that offered their experience as input. Too often the folks that responded have no idea what ever happened. We are learn by listening/reading, not by talking/writing.

 

[Martin52]

The Redding competition shell holder set is not made exclusively for Redding dies.

It also increases case head space compared to a standard shellholder - if your standard s/h resizes to 1.628 then swapping out for the +.002 comp s/h will size to 1.630. The +.0010 to 1.638.