Live Round Ejection,

[T.Rhodes]

Would like to find out what is done in 22lr matches - any kind of match - where a firearm cannot eject a live round.

For example; my 10/22 has a Green Mountain barrel and it will not eject a live round once it is chambered. It says so on the side of the barrel. So if I go to a NRL22 match and end a stage with a live round, what is the best/correct way to make it safe?

 

[chkunz]

If I am the match director for the match I would tell you not to bring a rifle that will not eject a live round. I would consider it an unsafe rifle.

 

[243Lapua]

Its kind of common on the green Mountain barrels to get a jammed 22. I fixed that issue with replacing the extractor with a better quality one.

 

[flatlander]

Some of us had barrels chambered with match reamers on our converted 40X & V-22 repeaters. Early on, the extractors on both my 40X & 40XB wouldn't pull a loaded round out because the bullets were seated into the lands after the bolt handle was rotated down to finish closing the bolt. I had to do some fine-tuning of these extractors in order to get both rifles feeding & extracting/ejecting reliably, including the replacement of the OEM extractors after I went a little too far in shaping the undersides for smooth feeding. After that, they both would extract a loaded round. Went through pretty much the same thing with the V-22 (early s/n, problems have been addressed & corrected in later actions). Mine will now extract a loaded round - in all instances, in all three rlfles, I've been shooting nothing but std vel match ammo. When one of our rifles failed to extract a loaded round in our matches, the match director simply allowed us to fire that round safely into the backstop, problem solved. Not the best situation to be in if a ceasefire is called for safety reasons, but that's one of the good things about shooting 22RF matches - there's seldom an issue with range commands not being heard due to muzzle blast. To be clear, nearly all the stages in the matches we run have one shooter firing at a time, so it's not like having a whole firing line of shooters firing at the same time. Best solution is to work with your rifle until it will extract a live round, or take it to a gunsmith who can do the job.

 

[Boyd L.]

Would like to find out what is done in 22lr matches - any kind of match - where a firearm cannot eject a live round.

For example; my 10/22 has a Green Mountain barrel and it will not eject a live round once it is chambered. It says so on the side of the barrel. So if I go to a NRL22 match and end a stage with a live round, what is the best/correct way to make it safe?

I want to know how most match directors manage this as well.
The places where I’ve seen it happen (and yes, one time it was me) the MD calls the line cold except for the problem child and directs them to fire into a berm or backstop.
While perhaps not common it does happen occasionally at BR matches when barrels are used that combine tight chamber dimensions with extractor profiles designed for sporting chambers. Some rimfire extractors have their clamping force provided by a C-spring or coils (like the 40-X) and will often fail to provide the force to retain purchase on a tightly fitted cartridge.

If I don’t want to deal with this issue I’d find a reamer design that my extractors will pull. I ended up using PTG’s Anschutz Match (I think that’s what it’s called) on my last Anschutz rebarrel. I also discovered that my tighter chambers will pull Lapua based ammo, which has a smaller diameter above the rim, better than others.

Listening...

 

[Tim s]

If I am the match director for the match I would tell you not to bring a rifle that will not eject a live round. I would consider it an unsafe rifle.

Have you ever been to a match of any kind ? As a for instance, few if any benchrest chambers will allow a live round to be extracted. This is why we have guys calling a line and generally if it is required, the accepted procedure is clear by firing and then bolts out/ actions open and the line is called safe.
Not real complicated.

 

[velocette]

With the rifles used in Smallbore Prone competition I've never seen a rifle that would extract a live cartridge.
In my experience the inability to extract a live round is both common and unremarkable. In the rare event
that we have a line stopped, live rounds would just go into the berm.

 

[chkunz]

Have you ever been to a match of any kind ?

My experience is mostly with NRA and CMP High Power Rifle competition. When there is an emergency the rules call for the command to cease fire and unload. If a competitor has a rifle that will not extract a live round then he can not comply with the command. So for that type of competition a rifle that will not eject a live round is not appropriate.

 

[chkunz]

With the rifles used in Smallbore Prone competition I've never seen a rifle that would extract a live cartridge.
In my experience the inability to extract a live round is both common and unremarkable. In the rare event
that we have a line stopped, live rounds would just go into the berm.

I have shot Smallbore prone and was never aware that any of those rifle would not eject a live round, certainly not the ones that I was shooting.

 

[Link]

I have a similar question. If you think your bullet is going to stick in your bore can you raise your muzzle so as the powder stays in the unfired case? Kept pointing downrange of course. Best way to handle that ?
Don

 

[chkunz]

I have a similar question. If you think your bullet is going to stick in your bore can you raise your muzzle so as the powder stays in the unfired case? Kept pointing downrange of course. Best way to handle that ?
Don

"up or down range" is the wording in the rule book for NRA or CMP rile competition. If I am the match director for NRA or CMP high power rifle competition I am ok with you pointing your muzzle up to open the bolt if you think the bullet is going to stick in the bore when you open the action.

 

[Tim s]

My experience is mostly with NRA and CMP High Power Rifle competition. When there is an emergency the rules call for the command to cease fire and unload. If a competitor has a rifle that will not extract a live round then he can not comply with the command. So for that type of competition a rifle that will not eject a live round is not appropriate.

Different world altogether. Many high end comp rimfires now use tight, untapered chambers.
Even in centerfire benchrest, many rifles would not be able to extract live rounds without spilling powder. Fire and then remove bolts would be the norm.

 

[chkunz]

Different world altogether. Many high end comp rimfires now use tight, untapered chambers.
Even in centerfire benchrest, many rifles would not be able to extract live rounds without spilling powder. Fire and then remove bolts would be the norm.

Since I am not familiar with this type of competition, how do you manage an emergency cease fire and do your rules cover this situation?

 

[Tim s]

Since I am not familiar with this type of competition, how do you manage an emergency cease fire and do your rules cover this situation?

I’ve seen situations where, say, an animal wanders out in front of targets and then it’s cease fire and step back from benches.
If a human has to go down range after cease fire then usually somebody raises their hand and is allowed to clear by firing and then it is bolts out and raise bolts so guy calling the line can call it safe.

 

[Delfuego]

Have you ever been to a match of any kind ?

Yes. Most every match I have shot has a rule similar to this. There are of course instances where something may malfunction and a rifle cannot extract a live round and that round may be fired down range if permitted. I have also seen rifles that malfunctioned and could neither fire nor extract a live round. These are safety issues and the MD is usually the last word. I think in most disciplines that it should be mandatory.

I have also competed in matches that require a functioning safety. Some even drop test every competitor's rifles to test before you are allowed to compete. The Steel Safari and Team Safari, which is this weekend, require this. If you cannot fix your trigger you cannot compete with that rifle. Extracting live rounds is also mandatory.

 

[carlsbad]

Good answers by Tim S. I think some are offended by characterizing it as "won't eject a live round". Anyone who shoots with bullets jammed into the lands may be able to eject a round but after the first time you eject the casing, dump the powder into the action, and leave the bullet in the throat you'll be asking permission to fire that round.

--Jerry

 

[USMCDOC]

Have you ever been to a match of any kind ? As a for instance, few if any benchrest chambers will allow a live round to be extracted. This is why we have guys calling a line and generally if it is required, the accepted procedure is clear by firing and then bolts out/ actions open and the line is called safe.
Not real complicated.

You don't know whom your talking to..

 

[T.Rhodes]

Thanks for all the replies and input. I didn't realize the frequency of this happening - good to see I'm not the only 'problem child' around. As for me with my 10/22, my course of action will be to get a Kidd extractor and install that. That may (should) fix the issue. Flatlander got me to thinking of this route with his response.

I contacted the MD of the match and he said I can shoot - with special supervision and precautions. I really don't want to be the problem child at a match, so until I get this extracting properly I'll hold off of the match (or take a bolt action rifle).

 

[Link]

Thanks for all the replies and input. I didn't realize the frequency of this happening - good to see I'm not the only 'problem child' around. As for me with my 10/22, my course of action will be to get a Kidd extractor and install that. That may (should) fix the issue. Flatlander got me to thinking of this route with his response.

I contacted the MD of the match and he said I can shoot - with special supervision and precautions. I really don't want to be the problem child at a match, so until I get this extracting properly I'll hold off of the match (or take a bolt action rifle).

I wouldn't let that stop me if the MD is on board. You might not be the only one with that problem. Is it a problem winging the spent brass at the other competitors with a semi auto?

 

[T.Rhodes]

I wouldn't let that stop me if the MD is on board. You might not be the only one with that problem. Is it a problem winging the spent brass at the other competitors with a semi auto?

No. The extractor will not extract a live round consistently. Maybe 20-30% of the time it pull out a live round. Repeated cycling of bolt may/may not extract the round. I've ordered a Kidd replacement extractor and will install that in the bolt. Hopefully...that will do it.