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Little help with .223 and trail boss please :)

Basically Id like to load up a ton of these using the 35gr vmax. Ive got a new .223 and I want alot of trigger time with it but Im in an area where its best to tone it down a little. Can I get 22mag performance out of it? say 2000fps? I understand the load to 70% deal, but has anyone got any experience with this combo? Thanks!!!
 
I've used trail boss in almost everyone of my custom guns. I've tried it in my 223AI, 6x47Lapua and even my 25WSM. If I remember right I was only using 3 or 4 grains of trail boss with a small mag primer and it was only running like 1300 to 1400 fps and only as loud as a 22short. In one sitting I run fifty round thru my 223AI with 50 grain vmax and the barrel never got hot once I never even had to put ear protection in. When I went to clean it, it was like I had run twenty full loads thru it. If you have any more questions feel free to PM me.


Hillbilly
 
You could use bluedot also. I run 12gr and wsr primer. I haven't chrono'd it yet but I think its below 3000. In my 22-250 12 gr runs around 2500fps and 10 shot groups under 1 inch. I'm not sure if seafire is on this board, but go to 24hr campfire and pm him. He has tons of info for reduced loads, mostly with bluedot but also with other powders.
 
Gopherslayer I've heard of the bluedot reduced load but how's the sound level with them? I used the trailboss to keep the noise down the closer you stay to 1050 fps the quiter ill be.


Hillbilly
 
vmaxpro.....I've never used TrailBoss powder,but I have used 6.0gns of Unique with a 45gn Sierra in my Remington 788 which has a 1 in 12 twist. Shoots consistantly 5 shot groups @ 100yds of .6"-.7". Speed is in the 1900-2000fps range. Got the load out of an old American Rifleman magazine. Good luck....gpoldblue
 
hillbilly, the sound level is louder than a 22mag. Real short and sharp. I haven't tried lower charges as these are real accurate with 46gr hp(hornet bullet) and 50gr hornady. I'll dig out my info in a few minutes.

Real world performance, the 50gr hits alot harder and drifts less. Very noticeable at 200 yards.
 
Sounds good gopher if you don't mind PM me how you figure out your load with the bluedot id like to give it a try.



Hillbilly
 
Here's my info from seafire.

223:

Blue Dot Range Report: 223 Caliber ( Full )

Bullet Weights Tested:
1. 35 grain Hornady V Max
2. 40 grain Hornady Vmax
3. 45 grain Sierra SP
4. 50 grain Sierra SMP
5. 52 grain Sierra Boat Tail Match
6. 55 grain Winchester FMJ

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, VT 26 inch Barrel, Stainless Steel First yr Model

Case: Lake City Surplus, previously fired

Primer: Remington 6 ½

Powder: Blue Dot

Charge Weight Tested: 4 grains to 14 grains.


Weather: Sunny, NO clouds, 80 degrees, NO wind,

Altitude: 2000 ft

Humidity: Very Low


Field Results:


35 grain Hornady V Max:

4 grs: 1284 fps
5 grs: 1488 fps
6 grs: 1862 fps
7 grs: 2163 fps
8 grs: 2392 fps

9 grs: 2636 fps
10 grs: 2722 fps
11 grs: 3076 fps
12 grs: 3205 fps
13 grs: NO Reading
14 grs: 3518 fps

15 grs: NO Reading, Too hot, Extractor Marks, Scrapped Case
16 grs: NO Reading, Too Hot Blew Primer


Hornady 40 grain Vmax:

4 grs: 1161 fps
5 grs: 1538 fps
6 grs: 1798 fps
7 grs: 2148 fps

8 grs: 2243 fps
9 grs: 2539 fps
10 grs: 2771 fps
11 grs: 2956 fps

12 grs: 3013 fps
13 grs: 3218 fps
14 grs: 3375 fps


Sierra 45 grain SP

4 grs: 1239 fps
5 grs: 1447 fps
6 grs: 1688 fps
7 grs: 1880 fps

8 grs: 2118 fps
9 grs: 2363 fps
10 grs: 2553 fps
11 grs: 2811 fps

12 grs: 2875 fps
13 grs: 3008 fps
14 grs: 3164 fps


Sierra 50 grains SMP

4 grs: 1064 fps
5 grs: 1345 fps
6 grs: 1624 fps
7 grs: 1788 fps

8 grs: 2033 fps
9 grs: 2257 fps
10 grs: 2466 fps
11 grs: 2655 fps
12 grs: 2779 fps

13 grs: 2882 fps
14 grs: 3038 fps


Sierra 52 grain Boattail Hollow Point Match

4 grs: 1061 fps
5grs: 1460 fps
6 grs: 1632 fps
7 grs: 1916 fps

8 grs: 2142 fps
9 grs: 2225 fps
10 gr: NO Reading
11 grs: 2673 fps

12 grs: 2782 fps
13 grs: 2879 fps
14 grs: 3012 fps


Winchester 55 grain FMJ

4 grs: 896 fps
5 grs: 1264 fps
6 grs: 1568 fps
7 grs: 1825 fps
8 grs: 1994 fps

9 grs: 2201 fps
10 grs: 2328 fps
11 grs: 2453 fps

12 grs: 2677 fps
13 grs: 2821 fps
14 grs: 2915 fps





Notes:

1. IN the evaluation of the 223, I came further to the conclusion of the versatility of the 223 in the use of training new shooters, and for a very versatile varmint caliber.
2. Essentially the 223 can be loaded to the specs of a 22 Long rifle, a 218 Bee, a 221 Fireball, a 222 Remington, a 22 Hornet, and a 22 Win Mag., while allowing the shooter to be able to pick the type of bullet that he prefers.
3. Bullets were limited to use of 35 grains to 55 grains. Heavier bullets will not serve any purpose unless a 223 is to be used for deer hunting. I do not believe that their would be a significant difference in the use of a 55 grain bullet vs a 60 grain bullet.
4. The recoil on the lighter loads using 4 to 6 grains of powder had minimal recoil if any at all. These would be ideal for young shooters being trained.
5. Noise level on the lighter loads ( 4 to 6 grains) were on par with a rim fire. An increase in noise level was very noticeable above 7 grains, but still very acceptable. ( No sounding like a rim fire any more)

Noted Observations:

1. It was noted but not considered part of the testing, with a tree used as a back stop for some of the testing, that all bullets ( 45 to 55 grains)penetrated thru the tree at a distance of 20 yds.
2. The diameter of the tree was measured at 5 inches.
3. The 40 grain Vmax loads failed to penetrate the tree at loads above 10 grs, above 2771 fps. However at 10 grains and less, the bullets penetrated thru the tree and did a large amount of damage ( like turning the wood into tooth picks) on the exit side of the tree. The penetration stopped at the 5 grain load.


Some of the Author’s Conclusions:

1. I learned some significant items beyond the versatility of the 223 with the bullets tested, but focusing on its use in the field, got some ideas.
2. A light rifle such as a Winchester Featherweight or Rugers Compact model with a 16.5 inch barrel or the Ultra Light with a 20 inch barrel would make a good combo with the use of Blue Dot.
3. Since the powder is burned cleanly in the first 10 to 12 inches of barrel, the shorter barrels are not handicappiing velocity in the lighter shorter rifles.
4. The penetration of the 40 grain Vmax into the tree did make me ponder the use of those plastic tip varmint rounds as potential loads for small deer for youth shooters. Just like my observations in the larger calibers, the plastic tipped bullet seem to do a lot more damage, at velocities under 2700 fps. The Vmax surprised me. This is a decision any shooter will have to test on his own and make their own decisions. I am just passing on that I saw potential merit in the application.
5. Although one has to weigh out the potential of Plastic Tipped Varmint bullets on bigger game like deer and antelope, some of these loads in real life use, utilizing Barnes’s X bullets in 22 caliber I can recommend. They make a 45 grain, 50 grain and 53 grain bullet. The way I saw much better penetration and more damage in wood, at the lower range velocities, 2200 to 2700 fps, this would make a good deer load in many parts of the USA, and recoil is minimal.


I did not test any bigger bullets as I feel that those tested would be represent the best potential with the powder. 60, 63, 64, 65 grain bullets and then the larger match bullets did not give what I considered useful velocity when I have shot them before with Blue Dot, in respect to their field design uses.


223 Range Report

Powder: Blue Dot

Bullet: Berger 30 grain HP, Varmint

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 VT

Barrel Length: 26 inches

Primer Used: Winchester Small Rifle

Bullet O.A.L. : 15.55 mms

Cartridge O.A.L. : 57.93 mms


10 grs: 2844 fps

11 grs: 3082 fps

12 grs: 3210 fps

13 grs: 3407 fps

14 grs: 3712 fps

15 grs: 3797 fps

15.5 grs: 3814 fps

16 grs: 3873 fps

16.5 grs: 3957 fps.

Accuracy Potential:
Load of 15 grains of Blue Dot, 30 gr Berger, WSR primer:
5 shot group size@ 100 yds: 0.4260 –0.224 bullet diameter = 0.202 group size
Scope: 6.5 x 20 Simmons.. setting at 10 Power.

36 gr Varmint Grenade:


Blue Dot:

223 & 36 grain Barnes Varmint Grenade HP.

Primer: CCI Small Pistol

Brass: Lake City

Rifle : Ruger 77 Mk 2

Barrel: 22inch


1. 7 grs: 1946 fps
2. 8 grs: 2286 fps
3. 9 grs: 2477 fps
4. 10 grs; No Reading
5. 11 grs: 2704 fps
6. 12 grs: 3024 fps
7. 13 grs: 3201 fps
8. 14 grs: 3321 fps


cheers
seafire
 
As usual start low and work up. These build up pressure quickly! When nearing max charges use increments of .1-.2. Drop your charge and seat the bullet immediately to avoid double charging. These are easy to double charge.

Use your head and go slow. No need to set records in reloading time.

I also have 22-250 info available and 260 Rem. I haven't used the 260 yet but am going to give it a whirl soon.
 
Are the Bluedot loads safe? I was attracted to the trail boss for the fact that it runs a full case. But if I cant get atleast 1900 or so with a 35gr vmax I might have to use the blue dot. Really good info so far though keep it coming!
 
Update! 8.2gr trail boss and 35gr vmax is awesome. 2300fps which is perfect with very very good accuracy. Ive already taken 8 groundhogs with them, all headshots. Farthest being 220yds ( even though the should go transonic?) They wreck hell on black birds too loaded down to 1100fps. Richochet's were bad though, at 1100.
 

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