light barrel br shooters

[favload]

I am interested in hearing about the performance of light barrels for br f-class comp. I have seen my share of both heavy and light barrels but am particularly interested in building a light gun that can hang with the heavies. When I say heavy I mean 1.25 straight taper and down. I am thinking that a medium palma or such may be able to keep up with everything else being equal (stock, action, and trigger quality etc.) when shooting strings of 15 in 15 minutes or so with ample cool down time. Barrel whip and heat flex are my main concerns but I would like to hear from those who shoot lighter barrels with other great components. I'm thinking a carbon stock Ti or Al. action etc. How do they stack up?
thanks
jer

 

[favload]

Does one see a difference when shooting a lighter weight action such as a Kelby with a smaller contour barrel ? I am only familiar with steel and SS actions but have been looking into others. The gun would be primarily for 300-600 yard F-class with some 1000 yd shooting. I'm thinking 6.5x47 or 260 with the new lapua brass and all. So recoil will not be too bad for a lighter gun. I don't currently shoot vight var. class but i would like to see the gun come in well under 10.5lbs.

 

[favload]

Hum, let me ask my question another way. Does anyone own a custom hunting / carry rifle they would put up against your normal F-class gun at 300-600 yds and not feel totally out gunned? If so, could you share its components? i know many are probably thinking WTF! why would this guy want a light weight f-class gun. Answer, I want to use it for more than one type of shooting and be able to pick it up and carry it around when i want. For $2500+ I dont want to limit my shooting activities with one rifle if I don't need to. I already have one f-class gun that i feel could get more use if it was lighter. I have a friend with hunting guns that can shoot in the X ring 3 shot groups at 300 but i never see these guns shoot 3 strings of 15 each often.

 

[favload]

I am starting to feel like I wandered into the petting zoo drunk in front of a bunch of soccer moms or something.
When I get home from work I think i might try to even answer my own question.

 

[favload]

Ok a discovery has been made here ! Out of 230+ BR viewers no one has ever tried to compete with a light contour barrel, stock and action set up while going against heavier guns in F-class. Or someone thinks i pissed in the punch bowl? Well we all see those guys with the stock Remingtons and Savage model 10's and even those 80 year olds with walnut-stocked, trued rem 700 target guns from 1969. You all know the ones people feel sorry for on the line. Those guys are either a figment of my imagination, a side effect of teenage partying or they are real and have tried it. I am simply asking what if one was so pioneering to attempt to build a "better light gun" using a Kelby or SV Bat action, light or medium palma barrel maybe 24+ long and a carbon Manners stock. Crazy right? Like global warming and going into space. I't aint happening right?
What i was looking for was "yea i tried something like that Favload and it worked out like this:" "You should try this:". Or even "i have no idea but it sounds like a possible idea".

 

[Butch Syme]

Well, I have been waiting for a reply as well as I think a lighter barrel can compete.
unfortunatly, I dont live close to any matches to prove the theory. I have had more than a few light barrel rifles that could outshoot my heavy barrels. Im in your dugout.

 

[Heavies]

I too am interested in what you have proposed.
Would be interesting if someone out there has any experience in this matter.

I too am partial to less is more perspective, my f-open(3-600yrd) rig has only a 24" barrel, and it is a bull conture 1" at the muzzle. It wieghts in at about 13.5 lbs with bipod attached. (yes I shoot open with a bipod) Probably still too heavy to haul around hunting.

I like to be able to pack up all my gear and move from place to place without any cart or other such bulky accessories. However, F-Class here is a really small proposition, and I am in no way a pro at this. I may have to change the way I do things to stay competitive, if things start to take off.

 

[FryeGuy]

well, I have had very little experience in F-class. shot it for less than a year. I shot down at arnold af base in that match. I competed with a shorter than normal barrel in 6brx and did fine. I once witnessed a guy shooting a 300 ultra mag. it was a varmint sized barrel or smaller, more like a medium weight barrel. locked it up with a hot load on a hot day. he had a nice nightforce on it too. he literally turned the gun over, grabbed a 2x4 and started beating on the bolt. he was hell bent getting it open. we finally talked him into taking the scope off. he ended up beating the bolt handle off. another guy I scored for shot a medium weight barrel on remmy, 300wsm. it beat him to death, and he almost quit with 2 rounds left to shoot. several guys had 6br with varmint weight barrels, they did well also. most guys I shot with had the lightweight barrels on their guns, only a couple had the big heavies. more of a funny story experience than helpful, but hell, at least I responded. it was funny watching a guy beat the crap out of his gun thou.

 

[favload]

Thank you Butch, Heavies, FryeGuy, and LE for responding to the post. I know that some folks out there have got to have experimented with the type of rifle I am suggesting. It may be just a matter of time. I too curently shoot off a bipod and plan to for the near future even though I know the bennifits of a front rest. I want to be able to enjoy the gun without the pickup truck worth of gear if you know what I mean. I have found that at 100yds one hole groups matter and everyone can/wants to do it. But at 300-1000 wind, practice, load development, hold, and pure luck are just as important and will get you in the x-ring. I have seen a lot of guys out shoot front rests and 22lb guns using a bipod than most think possible. I have also seen those shoot awesome off of a front rest but most of those guns were of the heavy contour, weighted stock type. I would like to know if there is a compromise. My brother's gun uses a carbon stock 60% or so with a SV Bat action and short heavy barrel in 6br. It is the most accurate gun to 600yds i (and many others on the line) have ever seen. i can shoot it just as good so know the design and components are a major factor. I am wondering if i could build one even lighter with similar results out to 1000 using a bit larger round. I have a feeling the stiff carbon stock is a major factor in its ability and if barrel heat is minimal maybe a lighter barrel and precision action would work out?
jer

 

[wapiti25]

I think you are missing the point on gun weight and how it reacts in the rest or bipod. A 6BR is not going to move in the rest as much as the 260 that you mention. This getting " out of position" is key in not shooting good groups. I say build a light recoiling, light gun and have fun shooting it.

 

[BoydAllen]

It would seem that you have two issues, the effect that barrel heat has on accuracy at the required rate of fire, and number of shots, and whether you are able to perform consistently at the level of recoil produced by the caliber and rifle weight that you would like to use. It would seem to me that both could be tested locally, at a shorter distance, with any rifle of similar recoil and weight. Let us know what happens.

 

[mikecr]

By the numbers, it's competitors that invest heaviest in grouping guns.
The rules provide naval gun weight limits, so that sets the parameters of their builds. Why would they build a 10lb gun, leaving out the advantages of another 7lbs or more, while nobody else would?
So there is no reason for barrelmakers to put efforts toward accurate -light barrels, which would likely require more process efforts than currently accepted barrels.
There is no reason for ANY gunmaker today to resist accepted, and rediculously heavy profiles, given that customers are(for some reason beyond me) impressed by competitve equipment results. If nothing else, gunmakers can fool their customers into bigger sales by comforming with F-Class lookalikes.

The only way this will change is with lower weight limit rules. This will never happen though, and IMO it's an irresponsible, and very detrimental condition directly caused by competitors.

 

[jonbearman]

Hey they said thomas edison was crazy.Necessity is the mother of all invention.Maybe with the help of our people and some smiths out there we can figure a way to make this work.My lv bench gun outshoots my best friends heavy gun always.It is frustrating for him.He has spent 1200.00 on barrels with the same result.Hmmmmmm maybe you are onto something.Keep us posted.

 

[mikecr]

Necessity is the mother of all invention

"Necessity, who is the mother of invention"
Plato, A Republic Greek author & philosipher in Athens (427 BC - 347 BC)Source: http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Plato/31

But 'necessity' here is established by the rules that bind majority customers. I wish it weren't so. I wish I could enter the Daytona 500 with a ZR1 Vette, and run the same race with AC blowin, stereo blastin, and no pit stops..
Change the rules, drop weight limits, and within a decade this necessity will have us shooting as well(or better) with lighter guns.
There is just no other process to cause such a movement. Right?

Even if you luck into a perfect combination one day,, How will you define it? How will you reproduce it?
It would stand as a fluke otherwise, with nobody to follow..

 

[favload]

Thank you all for your insight and curiosity . I too only am going after the next level in performance. It is often far to easy to follow in the path of the majority. I think using new lightweight components in a smart way may have someting to offer.