I have been running 2 100-round boxes of Lapua Palma brass for about four years of max loadings and finally, after 20 firings, they started showing small neck cracks. But only on about 20% of them. I am not an annealing junkie - I annealed every 5 firings. Primer pockets remain tight. I imagine if I had annealed every 4 firings they would have gone longer but I am very happy with the longevity attained. And yes, I know many anneal every firing. I'm not that guy.
Life of Lapua .308 Palma Brass (finally)
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Would you please share what the load(s) was. - 20 firings at max speaks volumes for the brass.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Jeeez, I got 900 rounds on 30 pieces of palma brass that I formed into 6 XC brass, there are about 12 cases left that I am still firing! I did not start loosing primer pockets until I was shooting the 105's at 3250 which was a very, very accurate node with R#17 in a 31" six groove barrel.
Annealing is critical. I never split necks, pockets opened up.
Annealing is critical. I never split necks, pockets opened up.
46.5-47.0 gr. Varget/Tula or Unis Ginex SRP/Sierra or Berger Fullbore or Lapua Scenar 155 gr. bullets. 2980 - 3000+fps. The actual number lost was actually only 8 out of 200 so annealed all and will keep going until they drop out and report. I am sure there are many Palma shooters with similar stories to tell...
Yes, I get it. Am still going as the number lost was actually only 8. So! Will anneal more often. Propane is cheaper than brass! Pockets are still tight so that is good.
That conversion to 6XC must have been a bear!
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Paul Bike's form die set makes forming the brass easy.
Phil
Gold $$ Contributor
I wonder how the Peterson 6XC SRP brass will hold up........
The following was copied from the Grafs web site, sounds like the 2nd generation stuff is better.....
NOTICE - THIS IS THE FIRST RUN: Peterson Cartridge 6XC casings are made to CIP external specifications. After producing their 1st “batch” of these 6XC casings, they noticed that there are some differences between 6XC casings made by Peterson, and those made by Norma. The main difference you will notice is that the internal volume of these Peterson-made 6XC casings is less than the internal volume of those made by Norma.
As a result, you will likely need to re-work your load for these Peterson-made 6XC casings. Using Peterson Cartridge’s internal ballistics lab, they were able to determine that 6XC casings from this 1st production run perform really well around the 2900 FPS accuracy node. If you start to increase your velocity above the 2900 FPS accuracy node, especially using 115 grain bullets, you may start to notice some pressure signs.
Since producing this 1st run of 6XC casings, Peterson Cartridge has worked with David Tubb, who developed this cartridge, to improve the casing’s performance with the 115 grain DTAC bullets. As a result, the next production lot of 6XC casings produced by Peterson Cartridge will have a larger internal volume combined with a much harder casing head. In testing performed with David Tubb, these new changes have eliminated any issues/shortcomings these 1st version casings have.
The following was copied from the Grafs web site, sounds like the 2nd generation stuff is better.....
NOTICE - THIS IS THE FIRST RUN: Peterson Cartridge 6XC casings are made to CIP external specifications. After producing their 1st “batch” of these 6XC casings, they noticed that there are some differences between 6XC casings made by Peterson, and those made by Norma. The main difference you will notice is that the internal volume of these Peterson-made 6XC casings is less than the internal volume of those made by Norma.
As a result, you will likely need to re-work your load for these Peterson-made 6XC casings. Using Peterson Cartridge’s internal ballistics lab, they were able to determine that 6XC casings from this 1st production run perform really well around the 2900 FPS accuracy node. If you start to increase your velocity above the 2900 FPS accuracy node, especially using 115 grain bullets, you may start to notice some pressure signs.
Since producing this 1st run of 6XC casings, Peterson Cartridge has worked with David Tubb, who developed this cartridge, to improve the casing’s performance with the 115 grain DTAC bullets. As a result, the next production lot of 6XC casings produced by Peterson Cartridge will have a larger internal volume combined with a much harder casing head. In testing performed with David Tubb, these new changes have eliminated any issues/shortcomings these 1st version casings have.
And even so..
I run the Lapua .223 brass in my Long Range Service Rifle. That means 90's at as FAST as they can go in a 20" barrel without breaking stuff.
Yet. The Lapua brass in a pressure test of 5 casings from 2 different lots went 10 firings with nothing but FL sizing, in a gas gun. I got bored at 10, and quit, knowing that that was more than a barrel worth anyway.
The ONLY reason I use Lapua in an AR is because of that durability, and it's only for those loads. It does not appear to shoot better, materially.
The palma brass has a small rifle primer. It'll take more pressure and last longer than large rifle primer Lapua brass with normal pressures.
Best to use the LRP brass in a M1A to avoid primer flow. Bolt guys usually have their bolt bushed or use a custom action with small firing pin and small firing pin hole in the bolt to avoid primer flow which is a fairly common event.
That being said I shot 6x47L brass for years with an unbushed bolt head and unsightly primers. Between barrels I had it bushed.
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I used Lapua LRP brass in an M1A. Also Winchester, Federal, Remington, and LC Match. Even some IMI. The Loads were different and you need to keep the different makers separate as your groups open up if you don’t. Never had a mechanical failure, and som got dinged up more, but the rim held up fine.
It's a great deal harder than the brass in the Federal GMM 168 match round that M1A users loved when this was the XTC rifle - but only rich users as not only was the outlay high, but it'd only take a couple of loadings with the mechanical battering the rifle design gives its brass and many only used it the once straight out of the box. (I assume it's a combination of fierce extraction allied to bolt timing that sees the backwards yank start with some residual pressure still in the case making extraction 'sticky' followed by straightforward abuse hitting things fast and hard between chamber and the case landing on the ground.)
Primer type aside - a really major issue as Steve123 says with SRP brass in some actions (see http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/pierced-primer-question.3961122/#post-37314528 a current topic on this issue) - Lapua 'Palma' brass is 'tougher' than most on the market. But with the M14/M1A aren't there some particular years of LC Arsenal brass that are the much sought after holy elixir for these rifles? IIRC, even these exceptionally hard / tough cases only survived half a dozen firings at most.
Laurie: The reason for retiring even LC cases when firing in an M1A after 5 or 6 firings was the usual practice of needing to trim every firing or every other. Cases would start to show signs of incipient separation and you do not want a case head separation in an M1A. So the usual drill was to find a friendly Army or Air Force National Guard shooter and see if you could swap fired brass.
Military Lake City is the hardest brass followed by Lapua.
How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...r-brass-5-56-and-223-rem-base-hardness-tests/
pardon me if you covered this already but does not annealing soften work hardened brass ??
jepp2
Gold $$ Contributor
I'm surprised that you had neck cracks with your practice of annealing every 5'th firing. What do you use for a sizing die setup?
I ran a case life test of range pickup LC brass, just to see how long it would last being fired in an AR15. The gas guns are pretty well known for being hard on brass. During the test I also annealed every 5'th firing and I had no cases with neck cracks due to work hardening. I got up to 35 firings on the brass. I viewed it pretty much as "worst case scenario" for brass that isn't shot at excessive pressure.
Jdne5b
Gold $$ Contributor
Palma primer pockets will out last Large primer pockets by a long shot.
Annealing and not overworking the necks will help prevent splitting.
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