Let's talk about High pressure catridges. taking the 308 win to 62000psi (saami max)

[Spirit]

Hello people
I think that 308 win can/need have a refresh by closing the bore. Is it so dangerous push a 308 to 62000 psi?
why?
it is a popular catridge around the world, and changing the barrel and using the same catridge of always you can reach a performance similar to 300 win mag.
Yeah, burns the barrel, yeah but death also exist
i know exist 277 fury and creedmore, but in other parts of the world we have in hand the good ol' boy of always, the 308 win.

in my stimations you can reach 3000 fps with 180gr and 3227 with 155.5 at 25"
i see your coments

 

[MisterHelix]

Well, sure, that sounds like a way to go, but it doesn’t suit my needs.

I’d rather go the other direction and load slow, low pressure cast bullets in my .308win.

 

[ZenArchery]

I’d be more curious how you’re actually measuring pressure? Most folks running fast and hard can care less about a “standard!”

 

[Straightshooter1]

Hello people
I think that 308 win can/need have a refresh by closing the bore. Is it so dangerous push a 308 to 62000 psi?
why?
it is a popular catridge around the world, and changing the barrel and using the same catridge of always you can reach a performance similar to 300 win mag.
Yeah, burns the barrel, yeah but death also exist
i know exist 277 fury and creedmore, but in other parts of the world we have in hand the good ol' boy of always, the 308 win.

in my stimations you can reach 3000 fps with 180gr and 3227 with 155.5 at 25"
i see your coments

I run some pretty hot .308 loads that based on QuickLoad calculations run at 62k psi without any pressure signs. The danger at running at SAAMI max pressure is conditions that cause pressure spikes, like shooting in higher temperatures, carbon ring build up, powder condition (powder lot that might burn hotter than the last) or who knows what else. Therefore, when I'm loading my cartridges, I make a concerted effort to be aware of what might cause any excess pressure and to load accordingly. k Keeping detailed records for the loads helps keep an eye on things like this.

 

[ZenArchery]

QL is predictive not actual. You gotta sacrifice a barrel to get real pressure numbers.
I understand what you’re doing. It’s an okay model when it works but in my experience hot loads are not scaled properly in QL or GRT.

 

[mike mccormick]

Pretty sure there are a lot of F/TR guys pushing that pressure already. I know some of the Aussies were using brass as a single use item.

 

[Straightshooter1]

QL is predictive not actual. You gotta sacrifice a barrel to get real pressure numbers.
I understand what you’re doing. It’s an okay model when it works but in my experience hot loads are not scaled properly in QL or GRT.

You're right, QL does not provide actual pressure numbers and I don't think it was ever intended to do so. But when the QL numbers are tuned to real world data, it can give one a pretty good idea for where the pressure limit might be. For example, when I find I'm getting hard bolt lift and ejector swipe, QL pressure numbers has always over the QL max, like by 5-10%. I will not know what the actual pressure is, but QL keeps me out of trouble.

 

[dakor]

Why not just run a 30/06?

 

[Larry Koch]

Why not just run a 30/06?

Because a 308 Win. can do what 30-06 use to. And still have a 308.

 

[dakor]

Because a 308 Win. can do what 30-06 use to. And still have

Because a 308 Win. can do what 30-06 use to. And still have a 308.

To make the 308 run the same as the 30/06. Does the 2x4 to bang the bolt open after firing come standard or is that an add on option these days?

 

[Larry Koch]

You just need better bolt action. And use a new powders which improve velocity with out pressure spikes.

 

[Laurie]

in my stimations you can reach 3000 fps with 180gr and 3227 with 155.5 at 25"

Based on real life experience, you won't. You will get case failures, a broken rifle, and maybe a broken you.

First, if you want to play very high pressures with 308 Win, you MUST use a strong make of small primer / small flash-hole brass as typified by the Lapua 'Palma'. They're MUCH stronger in the case-head/web than even the best of the standard large-primer makes.

The FTR boys and girls aren't making your target MVs with 30-32" barrels, and they are running some serious pressures with SP brass in custom chambers throated for individual bullets. 2,800 plus is available in such a rig for the 185gn Berger Juggernaut, and can probably be pushed to ~2,900 fps in our (UK) conditions (much cooler than most of the US in summer, and we also pairs-shoot, not 'string' so barrels don't get nearly as hot). Interestingly, most of my FTR friends who still shoot the 185 have backed their loads off to drop MVs by 100 or more fps to the 2,700s (again, 30-inch or longer barrels) as the downsides (primarily barrel life) outweighed the gains.

Around 10-12 years ago, we had a brief period where a fair few British FTR competitors ran Berger 155.5s at 3,250 fps or more using a Europe only Nitrochemie 'EI'-technology powder, Reload Swiss RS40 which is either the same thing as, or close to, the bulk grade used in RUAG's Swiss version of the M855 5.56 military load, the GP90. In 308, it gave the 155.5 up to 100 fps more than any other powder available on either side of the Atlantic. SP brass was essential. (I've personally witnessed more than a few competitors retire with blown primers in Lapua LP brass with this powder.) However, even with SP brass, people abandoned it after a couple of years - short (and I mean really, really short) barrel life for a 308; inconsistent performance between matches; worst of all the onset of 'sudden blown primer syndrome' for no apparent reason followed by retirement. Push a cartridge's performance too far, and life becomes full of problems.

 

[whatsupdoc]

User Ray123 was pushing the 308 to extreme velocities.

 

[marazzi59]

I personally think your playing with fire. To many variables to contend with that aren't always known or in your control

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Based on real life experience, you won't. You will get case failures, a broken rifle, and maybe a broken you.

First, if you want to play very high pressures with 308 Win, you MUST use a strong make of small primer / small flash-hole brass as typified by the Lapua 'Palma'. They're MUCH stronger in the case-head/web than even the best of the standard large-primer makes.

The FTR boys and girls aren't making your target MVs with 30-32" barrels, and they are running some serious pressures with SP brass in custom chambers throated for individual bullets. 2,800 plus is available in such a rig for the 185gn Berger Juggernaut, and can probably be pushed to ~2,900 fps in our (UK) conditions (much cooler than most of the US in summer, and we also pairs-shoot, not 'string' so barrels don't get nearly as hot). Interestingly, most of my FTR friends who still shoot the 185 have backed their loads off to drop MVs by 100 or more fps to the 2,700s (again, 30-inch or longer barrels) as the downsides (primarily barrel life) outweighed the gains.

Around 10-12 years ago, we had a brief period where a fair few British FTR competitors ran Berger 155.5s at 3,250 fps or more using a Europe only Nitrochemie 'EI'-technology powder, Reload Swiss RS40 which is either the same thing as, or close to, the bulk grade used in RUAG's Swiss version of the M855 5.56 military load, the GP90. In 308, it gave the 155.5 up to 100 fps more than any other powder available on either side of the Atlantic. SP brass was essential. (I've personally witnessed more than a few competitors retire with blown primers in Lapua LP brass with this powder.) However, even with SP brass, people abandoned it after a couple of years - short (and I mean really, really short) barrel life for a 308; inconsistent performance between matches; worst of all the onset of 'sudden blown primer syndrome' for no apparent reason followed by retirement. Push a cartridge's performance too far, and life becomes full of problems.

I have been shooting 308, 30.06 and 300WM's for many years with all the "improved" powders on the market.

Listen to Laurie you are going to hurt some one, you cant turn a 308 into a WM, freebore and improved powders doesn't turn internal ballistics into black magic

 

[Webster]

Hello people
I think that 308 win can/need have a refresh by closing the bore. Is it so dangerous push a 308 to 62000 psi?
why?
it is a popular catridge around the world, and changing the barrel and using the same catridge of always you can reach a performance similar to 300 win mag.
Yeah, burns the barrel, yeah but death also exist
i know exist 277 fury and creedmore, but in other parts of the world we have in hand the good ol' boy of always, the 308 win.

in my stimations you can reach 3000 fps with 180gr and 3227 with 155.5 at 25"
i see your coments

Sounds dangerous. You could be injured. It really accomplices nothing.

 

[choprzrul]

300 WSM seems like a much simpler (and far safer) solution to pushing .308 diameter pills hard out of a short action rifle....but that's just me.....YMMV....

 

[CharlieNC]

Hello people
I think that 308 win can/need have a refresh by closing the bore. Is it so dangerous push a 308 to 62000 psi?
why?
it is a popular catridge around the world, and changing the barrel and using the same catridge of always you can reach a performance similar to 300 win mag.
Yeah, burns the barrel, yeah but death also exist
i know exist 277 fury and creedmore, but in other parts of the world we have in hand the good ol' boy of always, the 308 win.

in my stimations you can reach 3000 fps with 180gr and 3227 with 155.5 at 25"
i see your coments

Why? What actual performance gain on the target/gain would this translate into vs the associated cost and potential hazards.