Lest we forget WWI

[ericbc7]

I have been watching a show on American heros channel about WWI. I, like many of my generation (born 1965) had history in school but never had "good history".

The devastation and pain felt in that war has no analogue in today's understanding of war.

My sources for information is not limited to a tv show. Check out "hardcore history" by Dan Carlin on iTunes or wherever. If you wonder where WWII came from, then listen to hardcore history. It puts our worries about the Middle East in perspective and you will understand how we are not significantly different than our great grandfathers.

I was astounded by how stupid I am about history.

History is so much better a teacher than fantasy like the Star Wars simplistic story. When real lives are lost we have an obligation to persue the truth.

The truth is .... Huh, I'm thinking like crazy but can't say.

I like that I have some sense of control with my 2nd amendment grants, but when you see the crashing irresistible devastation of WWI I want to elect folks that will avoid similar at all cost.

 

[Darrel Martin]

We have little concept of wars where individual battles like the Somme resulted in 1.2 million deaths .Once the gunpowder factories of WWI were changed to fertilizer factories and the poison gas factories turned into pesticide factories ,it totally transformed the country side of much of the world.Instead of farms with animals and crops which had been the pattern of sustainable farming for thousands of years we went to monocrop industrial farms kept functioning by tons of chemical fertilize and pesticides until the ground water in much of states like Iowa are not safe to drink and the soil requires more tons of fertilize and pesticides to produce.
A farmer friend recently estimated that it takes $500 per acre of chemicals to raise the perfect blemish free cabbage that we expect at the grocery store.I can not confirm these numbers, but the point remains that WWI forever changed our world.The use of T.E. Lawrence to enlist the help the help of the Arabs to defeat the Ottoman empire and their subsequent betrayal at Versailles continues to play out to this very day.

 

[FatBoy]

Though I generally agree with your premise, i'm afraid we are no longer the people we were at the turn of the century, or even in the early 50s. Nobody of my generation (I'm 42) outside of living combat vets and their families, know any sacrifice due to war. In WW I and WW I I when you went, you went until it was over or you died trying to end it. Families at home went without fuel, meat, rubber, etc. They went without their loved ones. If we got back to this, and focused on winning instead of "business as usual" stateside or trying to be sensitive to our enemies, we could win again. When you have 15-30% of the men in this country (and a smaller degree of woman) in it until it was done, you would see milions of family members crushing Congress to do whatever it takes to win and bring them home.

Will we ever get back to that point? Maybe, but I'm afraid the pain that it would take to get us back to that point would be horrid. When I see current footage of known terrorists and/or their support chain being allowed to walk (as opposed to eating a hellfire or JDAM) because some unknown is walking next to them it's clear we are not serious about winning.

 

[ericbc7]

The stupid volunteers of the first War were folks who were kindly noticed as keen fighters who had no understanding of what they were doing.

They died for nothing. We need to make sure the guys that die in our name die for something.

 

[Darrel Martin]

'' They died for nothing. We need to make sure the guys that die in our name die for something.''

It depends on who you are.It did result in the white Christian Germans being enslaved to the international bankers so the bankers were happy.That debt was a proximate cause of WWII resulting in another 20-25 million dead soldiers and a bonus of 30-40 million dead civilians but the bankers did get a lot of money so it was ok by them.

The land promised to the Arabs via the McMahon letters was given away from under their still bleeding bodies before Demascus fell via the Sykes - Picot agreement and Balfour declaration so all the right people were happy.

Demascus is in a country called Syria .You may have heard of it recently since we are actively trying to over throw and replace it's government and WWIII is trying to break out in that neighborhood.As I said WWI is still in play to this day.You are right .Do not send your children to war based on what the media says ,because they will not be happy until everything that the American people believe is a lie.As Henry Adams said :

"The press is the hired agent of a monied system, and set up for no other purpose than to tell lies where their interests are involved. One can trust nobody and nothing."

 

[Clavius-Walker]

Also check out a channel on YouTube called "The Great War" the guy has been doing episodes for a year and a half now, each week he has an episode that covers what happened 100years ago in the war. He goes over alliances, political climates to daily life and the far reaches of the war, great series if you're interested in ww1.

 

[370bc]

Great post.

 

[370bc]

I felt the same way too about WW! until I saw the series on youtube called simply 'The First World War.'
I felt even worse when I set out to question the facts that my old religion (Catholicism) claimed.
The first one I didn't have any info on.
Then second had all the info there ever was, even though everything they claimed was 100% wrong and immoral.

 

[6MMsteve]

Box Barrage

 

[DRNewcomb]

The only good thing about the US involvement in WWI is that the P.T.B. insisted that most US soldiers remained under US command, rather than being used as cannon fodder by French and British generals. The notable exception were the A.A. troops, who were integrated into the French lines and rather liked the situation. How, you gonna' keep 'em down on the farm? Eh?

We could have stayed out of that war, except that the Germans had no polite way to enforce their blockade of Britain and France. The British could politely board our merchant ships and inform the masters that they were free to go into a British port and sell their cargo to the highest bidder but that they couldn't proceed to Germany. All the Germans could do was sink the ship. It's a lot harder to get upset about a loss of some profit than sinking a ship and its cargo and killing the crew.

 

[boltman13]

The 100th anniversary of WWI has lead to the release, and rerelease, of many scholarly works. There is general consensus that WWII was a direct outgrowth of WWI and it's harsh treatment of the defeated nations. With the exception of atomic weapons on top of intercontinental ballistic missiles, all modern implements of war were used. The combination of mass conscripted armies, modern technology for mass production of munitions, and the incredible lethality of the machine gun and quick firing cannon, led to the incredible loss of life, and stagnation of the armies in trenches and wholesale slaughter trying to advance against them. For the first time the horror of war was brought home to the masses on the home front from the casualty list, as well as the beginning of air bombardment of civilians. At it's conclusion the nations truly hoped it was the "War to end all wars". Sadly it was not.

 

[Rust]

My great uncle was a veteran of both WWI and WWII. I remember him as being a very quite and very sad man. Members of my family have been in every war this country has ever fought. Including myself.

WWI was the continuation of religious/dynastic conflicts in Europe dating back millennium. It did not occur in a vacuum.

Our founding fathers were entirely correct in warning to stay out of European intrigues. Served us well until that idiot Woodrow Wilson dragged the US into that mess for no good reason. The given reason was that the Lusitania was sunk, however it was carrying munitions to England making it a legitimate target of war. As a matter of fact the German embassy tried to buy advertising space in US papers warning US citizens not to travel on the Lusitania. Pressure from the US government blocked such efforts. The only paper in the US which did carry such warnings was a paper in Milwaukee.

So you could say certain factions in the US government and those commercial interests backing them were looking for a PR campaign to whip up public sentiment to enter the fray. Using the engineered deaths of American civilians.

On result of the war was disenfranchised veterans being beaten, gassed and shot down by "federal forces", ie the Army, while protesting and marching in Washington DC.

None of which is commonly taught in any school.

Sounds like non-existent WMDs in Gulf II. I notice that the sole dissenting voice, a certain Colin Powell, was basically frozen out over the decision making on that one leaving the three stooges as the intellectual brain trust in charge, Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield. Invading Iraq took resources out of Afganistan (a legitimate operation) which set back efforts there and created a quagmire in Iraq. All this recently cost folks very close to me their son (a multi tour veteran) due to very severe PTSD. Veterans once again discarded, "Chuck him out, the brute" for you Kipling fans. About like the treatment at the end of end of WWI.

If averages held up for December 28th, 23 active duty military and veterans will have taken their own lives in that 24 hour period. Multiply that by 365.

 

[@nd]

The stupid volunteers of the first War!! You should hang you head in shame.

These were the men and women who laid down there lives so you can say things like that.

After the end of Conscription, The Draft, National service call it what you will the standing armed forces of most Allied countries are volunteers, are these ‘’stupid volunteers’’? NO they are STILL protecting our rights and freedom.

No military personnel should have ever lost their lives for nothing.

They should also be allowed to do their jobs without the fear of prosecution and having to justify every action they take.

 

[DRNewcomb]

One other dark spot of WWI is that it was the first time that Americans were drafted to fight a foreign war. Before then, foreign wars (e.g. Mexican War, Spanish-American War) were all fought by volunteers. The Civil War draft was a selective calling up of the Militia to "suppress rebellion". After the debacle of the Spanish-American War (yes, it was a debacle), Congress decided that they were too restricted by the Constitution in foreign adventures and came up with a formula to co-opt the states. They passed the "Militia Act of 1903". The Federal Government would pay for the operation and training of the organized state militias, who would all then become reserve components of the Army (i.e. National Guard), and the states in return would agree to give up exclusive rights to the unorganized militia. Thus the Federal Government could draft the unorganized militia directly into Federal service, a right it had never before possessed. I've sometimes wondered what would happen if just one state had refused to go along with the deal or even today repealed the required provision of state law which forfeits their exclusive right to call up the unorganized militia.

 

[people]

The stupid volunteers of the first War!! You should hang you head in shame.

These were the men and women who laid down there lives so you can say things like that.

After the end of Conscription, The Draft, National service call it what you will the standing armed forces of most Allied countries are volunteers, are these ‘’stupid volunteers’’? NO they are STILL protecting our rights and freedom.

No military personnel should have ever lost their lives for nothing.

They should also be allowed to do their jobs without the fear of prosecution and having to justify every action they take.

Most of the time I would agree with what you said but the WWI guys were slaughtered full scale. Sure war sucks but there is a difference between fighting and just running at a machinegun. Even a "coked" out crack whore can see that if she could afford coke. If a commander was to do that today their career would be over as soon as they spoke those orders.

 

[boltman13]

The reasons the President requested and the Congress passed a declaration of war against the Central Powers are much more complex than just the sinking of the Lusitania. The vessel was torpedoed and sunk on May 7, 1915. Erik Larson's excellent history of the sinking, "Dead Wake" points out the passengers and crew were made well aware in the daily New York papers the Lusitania was subject to sinking on site by German submarines. She was definitely carrying munitions for use by the British in her cargo hold. While President Wilson was certainly angered by the sinking he did not seek war with Germany until April, 1917. He campaigned for reelection in 1616 on the slogan,"He kept us out of war". The Germans announced they would stop unrestricted submarine warfare and Wilson did not press for war. American public sentiment was generally in favor of the Allied side, but strongly opposed to war on either side. As WWI continued and the German and Central Powers position further worsened the decision was made to resume unrestricted submarine warfare. Additionally the British code breakers shared the so called "Zimmerman Telegram" which proposed that Mexico declare war on the US and Germany would reward them with the return of territory lost in the Mexican American War in the southwest. By then the public opinion of the majority of Americans was in favor of war. Wilson responded to all of this and his idealistic pledge to "Make the world safe for democracy", and ask Congress for a declaration which they in turn granted.
Also the so called Bonus Marchers were not disenfranchised, they were, however, marching and protesting for the early payment of the bonus promised for WWI veterans due to the onset of the worsening Great Depression. The were suppressed with much force by the Regular Army. This episode is but a very small part of the results of American participation in the Great War. The United States emerged from the war as the richest, most powerful economy in the World, a position we continue to hold 100 years later.

 

[@nd]

'A coked out crack whore'.A fine choice of words for those who lost their lives in the defence of freedom.It could have possably been those who issued the orders who at the time were still trying to come to terms with what we now know as 'modern warfare'.How many soldiers who were there thought 'do you know what i think i'll have a saunter over to Gerry see how its going. Bloody well NONE. Both my Grand fathers were in Flanders and were just as fearfull of their own officers as the enemy. A bullet is a bullet no matter where it came from.

 

[boltman13]

Once the initial German thrust into France, designed to knock them out of the war before the British or Russians could mount any effective offense was stopped, and both sides went to ground to escape the slaughter of troops exposed to the power of the machine gun and rapid fire cannon, the General Staffs of the nations on the Western Front had no real experience in how to break the stalemate. The blockade of the Central Powers maintained at great cost by the British and French Navies would take time to be effective, and the German army was entrenched on French soil, in their most industrialized area. Poison gas quickly proved to be of no strategic advantage to the offensive. Massive bombardment prior to attack, alerted the enemy where to rush reinforcements to counterattack the coming thrust. The war became one of attrition as both sides withstood the attacks at Verdun and the Some. The bravery of both sides is something I can only marvel at. The refusal of the generals to call off this slaughter, and to try the same approach time after time, when it never worked is criminal in my view. Only when the French army was on the verge of mass mutiny was there any real thought given to the suffering of the men in the trenches. There were class differences that separated the view of the front line soldier, from the high command to the rear in all armies. The Russians were the ones to decide to lay down their arms and go home, but others were certainly not unaware of that as a possibility. Finally the last gasp of the German 1918 spring offensive fell short of winning the war, the resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare failed to eliminate the United Kingdom, the arrival of a vast American army in France, and the blockades reduction the German population to near starvation, overwhelmed the Central Powers and they sought peace.

 

[DRNewcomb]

.... The refusal of the generals to call off this slaughter, and to try the same approach time after time, when it never worked is criminal in my view. .....

I once saw the quip that the French were willing to defend France to the last Senegalese.
If you're interested in the Naval side of "The Great War", I can recommend two books: "Dreadnought" & "Castles of Steel" by Robert Massie.

 

[DeltaBravo]

This might help put all of America's wars into perspective. Happy New Year. Dennis