Lesson Learned on New Brass

[Phil3]

As a novice still absorbing reloading knowledge, I discovered something that alarmed me a bit. Using new Winchester brass, I noticed that some case necks, even if round, would not fit easily over the mandrel on my Redding Case Neck Gauge. I noticed this while checking case neck thickness and uniformity. It was evident, after some measurement, that some of these tight cases would give pretty high bullet tension, assuming you could cram the bullet into the case. Other cases slid over the mandrel a little too easily for my comfort.

I adjusted my FL die so I could just run the expander through the neck. This expanded the tight necks and they fit nicely over the Redding mandrel. Testing revealed a bullet tension of .002 - .0025". There were also a few cases that hardly touched the expander, and one case made no contact at all! As you might expect, it didn't take much to push a bullet into the case. Neck tension was too low to be safely used in my AR-15.

Unless I am missing something, I am taking the step to be sure all case necks are properly sized, FL sizing those with loose necks and the expander on those with too-tight necks.

Phil

 

[KMart]

In my opinion, it is always a good idea to run new cases through a F/L sizer die. Not only does it correct neck problems, sometimes you will find some that have the shoulder too far forward. That could cause feed/function problems in an AR. A stuck bolt in an AR can mess up your day at the range.

 

[Raythemanroe]

You need to re size them, I just bought 300 win (ww) brass and they were dented and the necks were square on some of them!!! Re size, trim,deburr, uniform the primer pocket and I wasn't that impressed with the wait differences at all, but I expected that...No lapua brass for the 300 anymore

 

[ridgeway]

Once you fire them you will find they will become more consistent.

 

[Raythemanroe]

cool

 

[amlevin]

To me, new cases need to be fired at least once before they're usable for anything requiring super accuracy.

If I have to make sure they're totally reliable for the first firing then I use a Forster Shoulder Bump/Neck Size bushing die. For this operation I use the depriming assembly with expander ball.

This gives me a case that doesn't have excessive headspace length and the same ID's at the case mouth.

I don't trim or neck turn until they've been fired one time and now more closely "fit" my rifle(s).

 

[Raythemanroe]

I use a neck die after I fire them once, I wonder if I should trim them after once firing or trim them again or just measure I'm sure?

 

[bigedp51]

To me, new cases need to be fired at least once before they're usable for anything requiring super accuracy.

And sometimes the Quality Inspector should be fired........................

The shoulder location of the new case below is actually over a 1/4 inch too short and the body of the case is binding in the case gauge preventing it from resting on the shoulder.

 

[bigedp51]

And Phil3 if you want .223/5.56 cases with better quality then get some Lake City cases and watch out for Federal cases, some of them have loose primer pockets after the first firing.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Just so I'm not just complaining about my Winchester brass, I trimmed them and prepped them but when I did the primer pockets they didn't need much work at all and deburring was very consistent!!! Meaning once I trimmed and starting deburring the brass was very close to the same distance to the primer hole...just saying

 

[bigedp51]

As a novice still absorbing reloading knowledge, I discovered something that alarmed me a bit.
Using new Winchester brass, I noticed that some case necks, even if round, would not fit easily over the mandrel on my Redding Case Neck Gauge.

Which cases below have the highest weight variation?
Which company sold its brass manufacturing plant after loosing the contract to make ammunition at Lake City?
Which ammunition company moved from from its unionized East Alton, Illinois location to union-free Oxford, Mississippi?
Which company below was bought out by a chemical company specialized in making chlorine, caustic soda and bleach?
Which company below sold its European ammunition business to the French?
Which company is at the bottom of the list in the chart below?



You can get Lake City cases cheaper, they are made to higher standards and the brass is harder in the base web area.

Trust me, I have a 1982 30-30 Winchester made by U.S. Repeating Arms Company that went bankrupt again and is now owned by Fabrique Nationale.

 

[Raythemanroe]

bigedp51, No Nosler brass on there? I don't think anybody is trying to say Winchester is the best!!!!

 

[Cleftwynd]

The last two batches of winchester brass I purchased were absolutely horrible, huge spread in weight, length and not concentric at all. Out of 200 222 brass I ended up with 14 I would call good brass.

I used to trust winchester brass......

 

[FroggyOne2]

For my 223's I have started using LC brass. It is working just as good as Lapua. I gave up on Winchester some time ago.

 

[Phil3]

Which cases below have the highest weight variation?
Which company sold its brass manufacturing plant after loosing the contract to make ammunition at Lake City?
Which ammunition company moved from from its unionized East Alton, Illinois location to union-free Oxford, Mississippi?
Which company below was bought out by a chemical company specialized in making chlorine, caustic soda and bleach?
Which company below sold its European ammunition business to the French?
Which company is at the bottom of the list in the chart below?



You can get Lake City cases cheaper, they are made to higher standards and the brass is harder in the base web area.

Trust me, I have a 1982 30-30 Winchester made by U.S. Repeating Arms Company that went bankrupt again and is now owned by Fabrique Nationale.

The fact that a company sells, moves, is bought out, escape a union, etc. are all normal events in the business world, and I harbor no ill will to Winchester for any of these. For some, such events may be problematical, but for me, they are irrelevant to the business at hand...does Winchester make quality products?

The chart provided in your post is from www.6mmbr.com. And yes, the Winchester certainly fares very badly. Makes me wonder about this sentence immediately to the left of that chart.

"...Winchester brass is favored by many Highpower shooters...".

I decided to check out my Winchester brass. I had a bag of never opened Winchester brass, part # WSC223RU, and weighed the 100 cases. The weight for each case was entered into an Excel spreadsheet set up with Mean, Extreme Spread, and Standard Deviation formulas. The results were:

Mean = 94.71
ES = 3.5
StdDev = .61

Out of the 11 cases in the chart, my Winchester cases would rank #7 for ES and tie for the #4 position for Std Dev. Much better than what the chart says, but recognize that brass lots can vary. Also, this brass was purchased a few years ago, and know that manufacturing quality may have changed in that time. I'll definitely try the LC. The Winchester is for the AR-15, and I already bought Lapua for my bolt action.

Phil

 

[Raythemanroe]

I would like to say that my Winchester brass (bag of 50) was the worst looking brass I have ever purchased!! I can't blame on the seller cause it was a sealed bag right? Way to many dents 75% and just ugly necks (square was the common shape)!!! Also I have never seen brass with voids in the surface..

 

[Phil3]

I went out and looked at 50 the cases I just weighed. Careful inspection showed 6 have necks that need some straightening. That is 12% of the total, which is hardly great, but I run them through the expander anyway, so not a big deal. Voids in the surface would be worrisome, but none seen on my brass either. I am beginning to think the brass I have, which I bought a few years ago, and never opened, is just from a time or lot that is superior to what is coming out now. Given your comments and that of others, I won't be buying Winchester in the future, but am thankful that what I have is quite usable.

The only weird thing on another bag were three cases that had a dark purplish/black discoloration around the neck and part way down the case body. When I ran these through the expander, the drag was much heavier than the other cases. Running them through the expander again (carbide w/lube) still resulted in heavy drag. It is like the brass is extremely stretch resistant. Those cases are being discarded.

Phil