Lee collet die vs. bushing dies

[mousegunner]

So I'm looking to reload good ammo for my Rem 40X. I have regular FL dies for the .308 Garand but I wanted to neck size for the 40X. I am considering some of the bushing dies or the Lee collet die. From what I gather the bushing somewhat centers itself on the neck but the collet die does not. Is there a difference that anyone has seen between the two accuracy wise?

I have a good supply of once fired match Rem and Win brass along with some factory match ammo. Its the factory ammo that I want to neck size once I fire it out of the 40x. I want to start with a neck size die first but unsure if turning the neck will also be required. The chamber right now does not have a tight neck, its pretty much a standard .308 chamber. Appreciate any comments on which way to go.

 

[Martin52]

if you do a search for Lee Collet die you will find lots of good posts to help you decide.
Basically, the LCD sizes by squeezing the case neck onto a mandrel, this is particularly good for cases that have not been neck turned as any case neck thickness irregularities remain on the outside of the neck where they will have less impact compared to being left on the inside as is the situation using a bushing die that will push those irregularities to the inside of the case neck and this might affect bullet grip. I use both bushing dies and a LCD - and generally use the bushing die for turned necks and the LCD for unturned necks.

I have also used the LCD to neck size turned cases and found the concentricity very good <0.0015.

I have struggled in the past with standard neck dies and bushing neck dies, always had problems getting the concentricity down to what the LCD can produce so to answer your question I'd say accuracy is better with the LCD.

Having said all that, I prefer to FLS, which you can do using a body die and then the LCD.

Martin

 

[XTR]

I like my Lee Collet die(s). You have to set them up correctly. If you mash them too hard You'll eventually gouge the petals on the collet and it will start to stick.

Just like you have to change bushings on a bushing die if you are changing brass types you have to set the collet die up for brass with different neck thicknesses or you'll end up with too much pressure and damage the die.

I don't turn necks, and I really like mine. I use it in a two step process where I FL size in one step and neck size in another. I've also run it with brass that I neck size only, big plus there, no lube required.

I like them.

 

[artbosco]

Full Length size with a F/L Bushing Die ALL the time. It's the best of all worlds and only requires one sizing die and a few bushing to help fine tune your load along with seating depth. The F/L die prevents a host of problems and headaches at the bench and down range. F/L size!

 

[BoydAllen]

For factory chambers, that have greater than match neck clearance on loaded rounds, and for instances where necks will not be turned, doing a two step sizing process, with a collet die sizing first, followed by a body die, in combination with the best seater available, will result in some of the straightest ammo that can be put together. Just remember that to increase neck tension you will need to slightly decrease the diameter of the collet die's mandrel. I have done this with a drill motor, and a piece of 320 grit folded around the mandrel, working slowly and carefully, measuring as I went. I shoot tight necked 6PPCs and load with bushing dies, with good results, but for my factory rifles, what I have described IMO, works better. Bushings do not center all that well when sizing cases that have necks that have expanded as they do in factory chambers. In those situations, the ugly cheap collet dies, that may need a little tuneup on internal finish, win.

 

[bluto77]

Just like you have to change bushings on a bushing die if you are changing brass types you have to set the collet die up for brass with different neck thicknesses or you'll end up with too much pressure and damage the die.

I've also run it with brass that I neck size only, big plus there, no lube required.

I like them.

Agree with all of this. You really have to be careful about how hard you press the die. Sometimes the collet can get stuck closed, and if you try to force a case in by applying too much pressure, you can actually break the threading on the die cap.

If neck sizing only (I do this with Lapua brass after its been FL sized and trimmed at least one time), it is really nice not to have to lube brass. That saves multiple steps in the process.

 

[BoydAllen]

As it says in the instructions, never raise the ram and operate the collet without a case in the shell holder. If you do, you will in all likelihood bend the collet fingers. Believe it or not, some who buy one of these dies for the first time, don't read the instructions. Who woulda thunk it ;-)

 

[rocknut]

I have had excellent results with my .308 Lee collet dies. I generally neck size 4 or five times after full length sizing, then anneal, full length size to push the shoulder back, then use the collet die again. I get about 20 reloads out of my brass this way before the primers get loose. I am on my second collet die. I think the instructions say something about using about 25 lbs of pressure to size correctly. Bad, bad, bad. When I did this, the collet petals seized up. I got a new one, cleaned up the outside of the petals with some emery cloth and lubed lightly with grease. Now I use about 5 ft lbs to resize. Very light force. I am amazed how little it actually takes to resize. I try to use the minimum amount of pressure to resize then drop the case into my case guage. No mater how little pressure I use, the case always drops right into the case guage. I see no marks on the case necks as I have read about from other people using the die, there is really no need to use much pressure.

 

[Changeling]

If Redding had invented the Lee Collet Die it would now cost one about 3 or 4 times as much. :

 

[22BRGUY]

As it says in the instructions, never raise the ram and operate the collet without a case in the shell holder. If you do, you will in all likelihood bend the collet fingers. Believe it or not, some who buy one of these dies for the first time, don't read the instructions. Who woulda thunk it ;-)

The instructions are always the first thing I throw away...they take all of the fun and excitement out of everything.

 

[MildBill]

I use a forster co-ax press and have never been able to get a lee collet die set to work right.

I either don't get them sized enough or pop the tops off the dies....

I would like to be able to use them, but have struggled and failed at getting them to work right.

 

[Brians356]

Just remember that to increase neck tension you will need to slightly decrease the diameter of the collet die's mandrel. I have done this with a drill motor, and a piece of 320 grit folded around the mandrel, working slowly and carefully, measuring as I went.

I've never dealt with LCDs. Is there only 1 mandrel diameter available for a particular nominal caliber? For a 6mm die, what is the diameter of the production mandrel?

 

[BoydAllen]

If you look around on their web site, or give them a call, you will find that you can order different diameter mandrels, to your specification. In my experience, the ones that come with the dies are about as large as would work. In the past I have done it both ways, custom ordering, as well as do it myself modification.

 

[boltgunluvr]

I think it should be noted.....the Lee NS collet die is easier to use with presses that do NOT "toggle over" or "cam over." Also, I only use 2 fingers for plenty of sizing force.

 

[mousegunner]

Since I am used to camming over on the Rockchucker, would I screw in the die until it just sizes the neck with the ram fully raised or just get the feel for it just short of camming over?

I'm intrigued but wondering if just a plain jane neck sizer would be the easiest and I assume I still have to lube the neck, anyone?

 

[XTR]

Since I am used to camming over on the Rockchucker, would I screw in the die until it just sizes the neck with the ram fully raised or just get the feel for it just short of camming over?

I'm intrigued but wondering if just a plain jane neck sizer would be the easiest and I assume I still have to lube the neck, anyone?

I use Lee Collet sizers with my Redding T7, and I let it cam over so it's consistent ever time. You just have to back off and work it down, it takes a couple of minutes, just like getting the perfect .001 shoulder bump with a FL or bushing bump die.

 

[BoydAllen]

When you read the factory instructions for collet dies, you will see that they recommend that you adjust the die low enough in the press so that you cannot cam it over, no matter what the press, and apply a relatively consistent amount of pressure to the press handle at the point where it comes to a stop. I have a friend that does it that way, and it works very well for him. There there are those of us who started to use these dies in our less analytical, more ignorant days, who did not have a firm grasp of the fact that once the collet fingers have the case neck in firm contact with the mandrel no further reduction in neck ID is possible. This resulted in the effects of excessive toggling. (and still will if you indulge in it) The bottom of the collet sleeve will be flattened and distorted by the excessive pressure, and at the extremes the OD of cases necks will become ribbed from the brass being forced into the collet's splits. I shold add that in spite of these issues the ammo shot well, and the brass life was seemingly unaffected, but of course there was a much better way. If you need more neck tension, as I did when I switched to moly coated bullets, either order a smaller mandrel, or reduce the size of the one that you have. In my case a reduction of only .001 was all that was required. Once I had that very basic concept firmly implanted, I found that the very lightest amount of toggle was all that was needed, and that I no longer had ribbed necks. (Of course if you have a sense of humor, the argument could be made that the ribs improved neck centering in the chamber, but that would be obvious rationalization In any case, that was a quarter century ago, when I knew a lot less, and probably had a lot more fun shooting, because energy was an abundant resource, there were no aches and pains, and there was so much left to learn, and so much equipment, that I did not have to drool over in the Sinclair catalog.

 

[artbosco]

Never had any of the above problems or the need for self-engineering, with a properly sized F/L die. Reread all the things described above and ask yourself if something seems odd. Resizing should be a simple, uncomplicated task. Insert a case into a die, pull down the handle once, and you're done.

 

[asauer]

I use a Co-Ax press and collet die. Like others, I set it up so that the press reaches its mechanical stop at the right time so as to provide a relatively exact stopping point every time. I got the creases in my necks when I set the die too low, but a little backing off and it's fine.

I also had to polish my mandrel down to provide enough neck tension with Norma brass in my swift. I made sure it just so happened to also be a perfect fit on the mandrel my Forster case trimmer... Something to keep in mind!

 

[BoydAllen]

A response to the remark about a properly sized FL die: Many are not. Their necks over size the brass, and the resultant drag on the expander, cocks case necks, and results in ammo that is less straight than it might otherwise be. That is why many have found it advantageous to use collet dies. Also, dependable sources have reported concentricity issues when using bushing dies in situations where chamber neck dimensions were on the larger size. I will agree that if one has a one piece FL die that has a proper neck ID, that that is the best of all possible situations for producing concentric brass. I have one of these for my PPC and it makes the straightest sized cases of all.