Learning to shoot F-T/R

[No.343]

I've shot a handful of mid-range F-class matches. I have a Sinclair bipod that has the knob to adjust elevation, but I cannot reach it while in position. The bottom of my butt-stock is flat. I am using a Deluxe Bumble Bee for a rear bag. After each shot my rifle usually lands one target to the right of me. I shoot left handed. Sometimes I can move the rifle back to my target and get the elevation correct. Often I do not get the elevation correct. I've tried to squeeze the ears on the bag, but I can see where my thumb has left an indentation on one ear and there is no such mark on the other ear. What is really bad is that I am throwing some 7s and sometimes a 6 at 2 o'clock.
Sorry for the long winded description, but I just want to ask what is the best way to adjust my elevation?

 

[Ned Ludd]

With your particular setup, there may not be a whole lot of choices. If your rifle stock truly has a completely flat toe with respect to the bore axis, you cannot get much, if any, elevation adjustment by moving the rifle front to rear. That is why having a stock with a couple degrees angle to the toe (i.e. a very slightly angled toe) is helpful when shooting a ski-type bipod off of an eared rear bag, which really aren't very "compressible" when filled with sand. Some other brands of ski-type bipods have gone with a spoked elevation knob, so it is possible to use a cut-off piece of an aluminum arrow (or similar) over one of the spokes as an extension lever to adjust the elevation without getting out from behind the rifle. Nonetheless, if you need to get out from behind the rifle to adjust the elevation properly, then do so, painful or not. Otherwise, dropped points will be the likely result. You could also try letting a little sand out of your rear bag to make it more compressible, but eared rear bags really weren't meant to be used that way. You could also try a more "squeezable" bean bag-type rear bag, but the bipod you have was really meant to be used with an eared rear bag for proper tracking. My suggestion for the short term would be to do whatever you have to do to get your setup to approximately the middle of its elevation adjustment range, however limited that may be, at the start of a string of fire. The hope being that you will have just enough adjustment to get you through the match. For the long-term, a different stock and/or or bipod may be worth considering.

You also mentioned that your rifle ends up pointing one target to the right after a shot. That is also not desirable. However, the good news is that that is likely an easier issue to solve than the elevation adjustment. Try experimenting with changing the angle of your body behind the rifle until it recoils straight back. My guess is that you need to move your feet slightly more to the right (i.e. angle your body a little more to the right). This will cause your shoulder pocket to become more square to the line of sight to the target and hopefully straighten out the recoil impulse/tracking of the rifle. Everyone is different though, so you need to experiment until you find the correct body position that allows the rifle to track straight from front to back. Experimenting with your position in practice should allow you to do that. Once you find the right position, practice getting into that correct position with respect to the rifle until it becomes ingrained in your memory. You can always adjust your position during a match, but closer you are to being in the correct position at the start of a match, the better. It also will allow you to focus more on reading the wind conditions, something that really requires a lot of attention in order to do it properly.

 

[Trevor60]

Evening

During initial set up
- Your rear bag should be set up with no wobble, if you have wobble you need to adjust the ground or use a dead bottom bag to eliminate any movement.
- Press the stock firmly into the bag, (I prefer) the stock to ride the flat and not the stitching.
- Run the rifle back and forth in the bag to check if it settled. The cross-hairs will tell you if the rife has good NPA (natural point of aim)

Rear bag holding energy test; set the rifle in the rear bag and then remove it. Look at the ears for any movement (they close) if you have movement you ears are too full or your spacing is too narrow; we can adj the one my removing sand.

Your rifle moves one target to the right. You are trying to get the same result with each shot this includes your contact points; shoulder, cheek, hand and eye relief. If you are doing everything the same having the rifle move one target right is fine if it end in the same location EVERYTIME; (right one target 9 ring 10o'clock) you said it usually does so it could be bag related or position.

Depending on which top shooter you talk will they all stress consistency consistency consistency but their rifles resting place may have the cross-hairs on their target or move X amt left or right. Each shot has the same walk through and process.

Flat bottom stocks gives you fewer options, and it requires a bipod you can reach. Seb with its handle or Phoenix, Duplin, Remple with a mariner wheel may allow you to adjust while in the shooting position; but it is a $400 test. Ask nice to borrow one at your next practice or match to see which you prefer. F class people are a good group and will offer their time and gear.

I have a Shehane St1000 with Seb joypod

Cheers
Trevor


P.S.

What do you use in the front, it should also be level with no wobble

 

[No.343]

I just asked to have my name put on the Joy-pod wait list this morning. Our local club has a concrete pad for a firing line. As far as I can tell it is level and the rear bag doesn't wobble. I will work on the position adjustment to try and keep and the rifle from bouncing and landing to the right.
I've thought about having the adjustment knob ground into a hex sided shape where I could use a common wrench. I've thought about adding a wheel to the bottom of the adjustment knob where I could reach it. One of my fellow shooters suggested adding another sling swivel closer to me. That seems like an easy answer, but I don't know what the down side would be. I think that I had to it over again I would buy a stock with an angled butt stock.
Thanks for the help.

 

[D-4297]

Kelby makes a excellent F-TR stock . Their designation is : K-TR , and it is their "in-house" go-to when building a F-TR rifle , unless a customer requests something else . I have it on my TR rifle , and very pleased with it . Was going to recommend the new up-dated version of the Duplin , but your on the SEB list .

 

[XTR]

Most F-TR shooters have some drop to the toe on The stock, even those of us who use a joypod. You will be fighting the rifle till you get that.

I didn’t realize how much till I cobbled together a 223 on a Savage BR stock many yrs ago. One match adjusting the bipod every shot and it was on the bench with a rasp reshaping the bottom of the stock.

The joypod is a great piece of kit, but I don’t think it’s going to solve everything. (I’ve shot one since around 2015)

 

[CharlieNC]

For a few dollars I had a machine shop make an aluminum bag rider with 5degree taper. The width matches the ear width, and at about 5 inches long it fits the butt toe. Attached with counter sunk screws it works perfectly to fine tune elevation as the rear bag settled ever so slightly during a match. If you like your stock otherwise this is an economical option to good shooting!

 

[OKBoomer]

While you’re waiting on the new bipod, an add-on to the Sinclair might help. My son has a 3D printed wheel on his that helps him reach the adjustment while still in the rifle. I bought this one from a fellow on here along with the bipod. It just press fits onto the bottom of the adjustment knob. Maybe you could find someone to design and print something similar for you. PM me if you‘d like dimensions on the one I have.

 

[No.343]

I wish I had posted this question a couple of months ago. Thanks for the info.

 

[Tempest]

All good info. Best suggestion I can provide is:

Use what equipment works best/most comfortable for you and provides best scores. In the end that's what is most important.

You said after a shot it jumps to the right. What is your bipod set on?

 

[No.343]

All good info. Best suggestion I can provide is:

Use what equipment works best/most comfortable for you and provides best scores. In the end that's what is most important.

You said after a shot it jumps to the right. What is your bipod set on?

I've tried setting on my old shooting mat and a piece of carpet. The results are about the same with either one.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

I've tried setting on my old shooting mat and a piece of carpet. The results are about the same with either one.

Ned Ludd (Greg) is correct.

Your comment is unintentionally hilarious as it touches on a spirited debate in these forums; carpet doesn't meaningfully help the gun track better.

You need to work on body positioning; oddly enough I have to angle my hips out to the left (right handed shooter). Whatever direction ends up working for you, once you get it right, that gun will recoil straight back each time; it enables you to basically shoot as fast as the shotmarker will show you the shot, or the person in the pits can work the target.

You can shoot it off a delrin cutting board, and it'll still track straight if your form is correct.

 

[Trevor60]

If you are shooting off of a hard surface we can eliminate bag wobble.
how does the stock fit in the bag?

others have given good information about body alignment and adjusting your hip.

How firm is the rifle into your shoulder. Are you a hard holder or more free recoil. You might consider lighter contact with your shoulder so the rifle has a chance to track straight back.

Don't Try both at the same time.

Start with the one test (the hips) first then a separate test lighter shoulder contact.

Cheers
Trevor

 

[No.343]

I will definitely pay more attention to my hips. I try to line up directly behind the rifle with my shoulders and hips perpendicular to the line of the bore. I would describe my hold as more of a hard hold.
This is my first bag with ears. Until a few months ago I used a sock filled with rice for a rear support. I don't know how a rifle is supposed to fit on a rear bad, and from what I've read on this forum it seems to be pretty subjective.
This is how I am trying to go forward:
1. Find a way to secure the elevation of the rifle without squeezing the ears of the rear bag.
2. Find a way to stop the rifle from landing off target after recoil.
Thanks a bunch every one. You have given me lots of things to try.

 

[jr600yd]

Get behind the gun, get your position, close your eyes, take 3 deep breaths, open your eyes, where’s the gun pointed???

Make adjustments and repeat.

 

[Jennb]

You can add an angled piece to your butt stock or cut a slight angle.

 

[Robert G]

Don't think I'm hijacking here...
How much contact do you F/TR shooters have with your rear bag, if any? All up on it? Just touching?
Following this as I'm just getting into F/TR this year as well.

 

[Acyr]

This is what I have learned over the last few years.
Don't try to muscle the gun, let it recoil the way it wants to.
Get a big heavy rear bag. Make sure your stock fits in it correctly. Use a dead bottom.
Match your bipod to your stock. i.e. no angle = Joypod, Flex bipod, elevation changes will need to be corrected by the bipod. Mariners wheel types are tedious and not practical here.
Angled buttstock use a Phoenix, Duplin etc. Whatever your weight will allow. Elevation changes will be handled mostly by the stock placement once the bipod elevation is set.
Do not bag squeeze.
Get as low in position as possible. Think flat.
Get as straight behind the gun as possible.
Once you're sights are on the target in the x ring let go of your rifle, are you still on the x?
No? figure out why and correct it. It needs to be every time. Muscling it into the x is bad.
Yes? Inhale, exhale, squeeze, bang, repeat.

 

[Oleg S]

^^^ great summary A+

 

[D-4297]

A primer tutorial on shooting set-up for F-TR , from a guy who knows how to . Take notes children .

This is what I have learned over the last few years.
Don't try to muscle the gun, let it recoil the way it wants to.
Get a big heavy rear bag. Make sure your stock fits in it correctly. Use a dead bottom.
Match your bipod to your stock. i.e. no angle = Joypod, Flex bipod, elevation changes will need to be corrected by the bipod. Mariners wheel types are tedious and not practical here.
Angled buttstock use a Phoenix, Duplin etc. Whatever your weight will allow. Elevation changes will be handled mostly by the stock placement once the bipod elevation is set.
Do not bag squeeze.
Get as low in position as possible. Think flat.
Get as straight behind the gun as possible.
Once you're sights are on the target in the x ring let go of your rifle, are you still on the x?
No? figure out why and correct it. It needs to be every time. Muscling it into the x is bad.
Yes? Inhale, exhale, squeeze, bang, repeat.