Learned a new "reloading "term today....

[garandman]

Its called "Mexican Match" (I didn't make it up....)

Its defined this way....

"Change the projectile and powder charge on what was a factory load."

In the specific case, they were taking a known garbage factory round (Federal 75 gr 224 Valkyrie, sells at Walmart for $6 / 20 rounds) pulling the bullets, tweaking the powder charge, re-seating a higher quality projectile and shooting it.

Supposedly it slightly improves accuracy, and saves money over actual reloading. (I'm not saying that... that's what the ppl who use this practice claim.)

For my money, using a better bullet with sub-standard powder primer and brass seems penny wise, pound foolish, and will have you chasing your tail / wondering if your groups are opened up by the remaining sub-standard components.


Ever head of / done this? (And yes I think the term is dumb, derogatory)

 

[dcali]

It's an old term - it originates with (high power?) shooters taking military ammo, pulling the FMJ, and seating a match grade bullet. Typically, the donor ammo was had very cheaply. The term is a bit un-PC these days, but I've heard worse. I've never done it, but it makes sense that a match bullet will outshoot a military bullet all else equal. The guys doing this were not benchrest shooters or looking for that kind of accuracy.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

It's an old term - it originates with (high power?) shooters taking military ammo, pulling the FMJ, and seating a match grade bullet. Typically, the donor ammo was had very cheaply. The term is a bit un-PC these days, but I've heard worse. I've never done it, but it makes sense that a match bullet will outshoot a military bullet all else equal. The guys doing this were not benchrest shooters or looking for that kind of accuracy.

Yep, that term has been around a long time. Mil surp ammo was cheap.

 

[Sieg]

The term also speaks to the general resourcefulness of the Mexican people.

 

[Downhill]

It is an old High Power Across the Course term. Different forms of Mexican Match. Sometimes we would just pull the factory bullet and divide all the powder equally between each round ( it was surprising how the factory charges varied) and then reseat the bullets. Other times we would add a match bullet.

 

[riflewoman]

It pre dates me shooting Highpower rifle...(early 1970s) although it probably was coined about that time.

it was generally understood to mean service match 308 or 30-06 that someone had pulled the 172 grain military bullet and substituted a 168 (Sierra usually). Whether the powder charges were equaled depended on the shooter. The reason was to increase accuracy for points and X count. The 172 would shoot hollow groups.

The USMC also had a special Long Range load which was called “T-1” or something. The exact recipe was hard to pin down but it was way hotter than LC Match. It consisted of a 172 match bullet from a lot that shot well that had been pulled and an even higher charge of 4895. It was only used at long range.

Mexican match was more common in reserve teams and civilians shooting a service rifle.

 

[Rsadams]

There was a man on these gun boards who kinda did this but it was more of an experiment.... He pulled some bullets from 7.62x39 Tula ammo and replaced them with good bullets... He then put the Tula bullets into brass cases... The steel Tula with the good bullets shot fairly good but the actual Tula bullets in the brass shot the same as normal....

 

[Straightshooter1]

Its called "Mexican Match" (I didn't make it up....)

Its defined this way....

"Change the projectile and powder charge on what was a factory load."

In the specific case, they were taking a known garbage factory round (Federal 75 gr 224 Valkyrie, sells at Walmart for $6 / 20 rounds) pulling the bullets, tweaking the powder charge, re-seating a higher quality projectile and shooting it.

Supposedly it slightly improves accuracy, and saves money over actual reloading. (I'm not saying that... that's what the ppl who use this practice claim.)

For my money, using a better bullet with sub-standard powder primer and brass seems penny wise, pound foolish, and will have you chasing your tail / wondering if your groups are opened up by the remaining sub-standard components.


Ever head of / done this? (And yes I think the term is dumb, derogatory)

I've not heard the term, but have done that kind of thing on a factory load.

I had bought a couple boxes of what was a new line of long range ammunition for my .308. It use turned solid brass bullets with a unique design and I wanted to see how well the shoot. I fired and chronoed 10 rounds to see what I might get. It was really disappointed as the result were poor both the grouping as well as the chrono numbers. So, I decided to take some measurements and found the seating depth's to be too irregular and the concentricity was often at .006. After pulling the bullets of 10 rounds I measured the powder weight and found it varied by way too much (like .2 - .3 grains). Taking the average powder weight I recharging the cartridges with the same powder I had removed so that there was less than a powder granule difference (they were loaded with an extruded powder) and reseated the bullets to within .001 and with the concentricity at .0015 or better. Then I fired them to compare the results to the previous ones and got much better results where the ES and SD was where it should have been to start with for "long range shooting" (IMHO). Though the groupinig was about half of the previous, it still wasn't up to par with the tuned ammo I normally load, which is understandable given the powder charge wasn't one tuned to my barrel. BTW, this ammo was produced by American Reserve Munitions and they called it the Predator using a 176 gr solid brass projectile.

I've done a much lesser thing to other factory ammo (FGMM) where I've simply taken the cartridges and straightened them out to get them much more concentric. I did it to see show much of a difference it might make, and sure enough, there was a noticeable improvement . . . but not much.

 

[chkunz]

It pre dates me shooting Highpower rifle...(early 1970s) although it probably was coined about that time.

it was generally understood to mean service match 308 or 30-06 that someone had pulled the 172 grain military bullet and substituted a 168 (Sierra usually). Whether the powder charges were equaled depended on the shooter. The reason was to increase accuracy for points and X count. The 172 would shoot hollow groups.

The USMC also had a special Long Range load which was called “T-1” or something. The exact recipe was hard to pin down but it was way hotter than LC Match. It consisted of a 172 match bullet from a lot that shot well that had been pulled and an even higher charge of 4895. It was only used at long range.

Mexican match was more common in reserve teams and civilians shooting a service rifle.

When I started shooting high power in the late 1970s some of the military teams were doing this. The LC Match ammo had the 172 Military Match bullet and they would pull the as issued bullet and replace it with the 168 SMK. The US National Guard Marksman Unit was located in in Smyrna, TN at that time and one of the National Guard team members told me that their Commander did not approve of "the modification of perfectly good government match ammo". They had a test tunnel at their Smyrna facility at that time and one of the team members ran a test comparing the Mexican Match with the as issued military match ammo and showed the results to the Commander. I do not know that after seeing the test results that he officially approved of the practice but he did not order it stopped. Many of the pulled bullets made it into the hands of us civilian shooters.

 

[Depart123]

It is called "Mexican Match" because at the time, the PanAm games it was created for were being held in Mexico City.

http://www.snipercentral.com/history-m118-ammunition/

 

[riflewoman]

When I started shooting high power in the late 1970s some of the military teams were doing this. The LC Match ammo had the 172 Military Match bullet and they would pull the as issued bullet and replace it with the 168 SMK. The US National Guard Marksman Unit was located in in Smyrna, TN at that time and one of the National Guard team members told me that their Commander did not approve of "the modification of perfectly good government match ammo". They had a test tunnel at their Smyrna facility at that time and one of the team members ran a test comparing the Mexican Match with the as issued military match ammo and showed the results to the Commander. I do not know that after seeing the test results that he officially approved of the practice but he did not order it stopped. Many of the pulled bullets made it into the hands of us civilian shooters.

in the late 70s and the “60-XX” lot numbers of 118, I’d take issue myself of the term “perfectly good government match ammo”. That crap had random 7s.. If the commander was talking about lot 12064, he’d have a point.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

How many mexicans shoot highpower?

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Not exactly the same, but similar, my son has a Mosin Nagant and a lot of old issue military ammo. It shot all over the paper. I advised him to pull the bullets on several and weigh the powder. After doing this he found that the powder weight varied by as much as 3 grains. He took the time to pull 100 bullets, pour out the powder and reload the bullets with an equal amount of powder. Went to the range yesterday and was shooting 1.5 in groups. He reused the same bullets.

 

[Laurie]

It is called "Mexican Match" because at the time, the PanAm games it was created for were being held in Mexico City.

http://www.snipercentral.com/history-m118-ammunition/

That could be one origin. The other one I've heard of comes from 'Mexican Wave' where people in lines do things sequentially, as in:

The National Guard, ROTC and other such teams would set up a line of presses in a row on a bench. Station #1 had a 30-06 seater die installed set deeper than the standard COAL; station #2 had the pullet puller, and station #3 had as second seater die in situ, but adjusted for the correct COAL. Taking issued 30-06 ammo, it was passed along the line, station # 1 seated the bullet deeper and broke the seal / crimp then passed the round to #2; who pulled the military bullet and passed the charged case onto #3 who seated a 168gn SMK. In this manner large quantities were demilled and rebulleted in a relatively short period.

Somebody seeing three people working in sequence and getting a steady rhythm going with press arms going up and down likened its appearance to people in a crowd doing a 'Mexican wave' and the name was allegedly born.

That might or might not be the correct genealogy, but it sounds good and the term with different variations around 'Mexican' wherever it comes from caught and has certainly stuck to the present day. Australian and New Zealand 'Target Rifle' team members (7.62 sling shooting) would take the issue Footscray Arsenal ammo in the 150gn maximum bullet weight days and do this in the team tent prior to major matches in this case substituting a 150gn Lapua B-series 'Lock-Base' FMJBT. I read they called these rebulleted rounds 'Mexican reloads'.

I've never previously heard the term described as 'racist' and certainly never thought of it as such, nor would do so now.

 

[10XSHOOTER]

pulled 147 ball bullets and replaced them with 150 MK. shot great in a 12 twist M-1A. gun also liked 168 LC Match ammo also. Used the 150's for practice and 200 yd off hand.

 

[LCazador]

I don't think it is safe to post any of this. Kinda' like selling your old reloads here which isn't allowed along with cliks instead of actual powder charges! Come on guys?!! We're better than that!

 

[wkdickinson]

I have an Springfield MI Garand (500K SN) with 1943 barrel date. I also have a bunch of M2 BALL ammo. I have had great results from pulling the bullets from the BALL and replacing them with 155 gr Sierra Palma bullets. I use an old Forester bullet puller for this, not sure if they are still made.

 

[Laurie]

I don't think it is safe to post any of this.

I don't think anybody is recommending this practice here in modern conditions, and if one does, it's simple enough to check whether there are pressure increases and charge weights can be adjusted downwards accordingly. The thread is about the origins of the term, not about its merits or otherwise.

Nevertheless, if the old-time service rifle match shooters are to be believed, tens if not hundreds of thousands of rounds of the heavier bullet military arsenal loaded 30-06 (173gn FA?), the postwar 'match' equivalent of the old M1 heavy bullet pre-war round, were rebulleted without issue, and I don't think there were any risks being run. The people organising these practices knew what they were about, and if they'd been loading over-pressure ammo that was being shot in M1 Garands with their vulnerable operating systems, the unit armourers would soon have been on their case and higher levels alerted to dangerous practices.

 

[PDS]

I don't think it is safe to post any of this. Kinda' like selling your old reloads here which isn't allowed along with cliks instead of actual powder charges! Come on guys?!! We're better than that!

Well maybe I'm not better than that. I made 1000's of rounds of mex match when I was on the Wisconsin National Guard M14 team.
It was a good quick way to upgrade the issued match ammo. We never had any problems with it and everybody was happy to use it. But then we were just low life service rifle shooters and the taxpayers paid for all our fun.

 

[LCazador]

I don't think anybody is recommending this practice here in modern conditions, and if one does, it's simple enough to check whether there are pressure increases and charge weights can be adjusted downwards accordingly. The thread is about the origins of the term, not about its merits or otherwise.

Nevertheless, if the old-time service rifle match shooters are to be believed, tens if not hundreds of thousands of rounds of the heavier bullet military arsenal loaded 30-06 (173gn FA?), the postwar 'match' equivalent of the old M1 heavy bullet pre-war round, were rebulleted without issue, and I don't think there were any risks being run. The people organising these practices knew what they were about, and if they'd been loading over-pressure ammo that was being shot in M1 Garands with their vulnerable operating systems, the unit armourers would soon have been on their case and higher levels alerted to dangerous practices.

Doing this and getting away without any problems is not making it right for someone who may try this and suffer some bad consequences!