LC 5.56 Brass - how important is it to sort it by year?
- Thread starter MMH
- Start date
Neck runout???? New one on me.....I would hope he is outside turning and his die takes care of the rest. If it don't then it would seem more like he needs a new resize die, not sorted brass.
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
LC brass and precision is an oxymoron. Billions are made every year and it varies too much not only from year to year, but lot to lot. Ok for throwing charges and plinking steel. One has to remember, it's made to use one time and be thrown away.
Now we'll hear from the AR guys that shoot in the ones with it.
Now we'll hear from the AR guys that shoot in the ones with it.
Hope is not a plan. Just say'n.
Measure and sort. That's the start of a good plan, IMOP. But what do I know?
dstoenner
Silver $$ Contributor
Lake city plant runs a lot of case making machines. The final cases are just lumped altogether to then go in the loading presses. Each machine has it own idiosyncrasies so cases from one machine are heavier or lighter as the case may be and how much the dies are worn. There are controls on when the dies get changed out.
So with that said, the only real gauge you have is to sort by case weight. Your best bet is to pick up range brass you know at least got shot in an AR15 as opposed to buying bulk brass that probably came out of a machine gun with REALLY loose chambers.
I have found that if you size the 1X fired brass and then do a neck concentricity sort of no more than 2 mil runout and then sort into 1 gn increments you will get some decent brass that will last you at least 5 reloadings. I also neck turned my brass to get any high spots off. After the second firing, you cases and loaded ammo will be pretty good.
This is what I used for my NRA High Power loads. But that is a 2 MOA 10 ring and being slung in vs benched it was good enough. When it comes to my bolt 223 I use Lapua or Nosler for precision loads. I am on my 6th reloading of my Lapua cases and they are still solid in every way. LC brass work hardens after about 5 loadings and will have case splits after about 6.
Everything is a compromise, it is just what you want to compromise.
David
Oh and I worked there one summer. The prime contractor has changed but not the equipment.
So with that said, the only real gauge you have is to sort by case weight. Your best bet is to pick up range brass you know at least got shot in an AR15 as opposed to buying bulk brass that probably came out of a machine gun with REALLY loose chambers.
I have found that if you size the 1X fired brass and then do a neck concentricity sort of no more than 2 mil runout and then sort into 1 gn increments you will get some decent brass that will last you at least 5 reloadings. I also neck turned my brass to get any high spots off. After the second firing, you cases and loaded ammo will be pretty good.
This is what I used for my NRA High Power loads. But that is a 2 MOA 10 ring and being slung in vs benched it was good enough. When it comes to my bolt 223 I use Lapua or Nosler for precision loads. I am on my 6th reloading of my Lapua cases and they are still solid in every way. LC brass work hardens after about 5 loadings and will have case splits after about 6.
Everything is a compromise, it is just what you want to compromise.
David
Oh and I worked there one summer. The prime contractor has changed but not the equipment.
This. Some of it is pretty darn good. If you can sort out the banana casings, off center flash holes and all the other problems they are as good as lapua brass. Granted it is just super easy to buy lapua. Sorting casings sucks no matter how you do it. I try to do it while watching TV or a movie. My best practice is to do it while your wife is watching her favorite show that I just can not watch.
The hard and fast is this. What do you want to do with it and how much time do you want to spend?
It's really not bad brass.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/
Can I sort by case weight or do I have to really sort by volume? I am not going after benchrest accuracy but am hoping to produce ammo that can shoot at 1/2 moa at 600 yds. (10fps ES?).
No intention of turning neck. Will use body die to FL size and follow up with a Lee collet neck die.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Itll take 1000 to get 100 if that. Get some better brass
FWIW;
I'm shooting two 223's. A Model 12BVSS with a Criterion 8 twist varmint, and a box-stock 12FV in a thumbhole laminate.
I began shooting American Eagle 50 gr Tipped Varmint as a warm up round after discovering how well they shot. I'd buy several hundred at a time on sale, sometimes as cheap as $4.89 a box of 20, but the cheapest ones had flash holes that were WAAAY off center. Still shot well, but tossed the brass afterwards. So I began harvesting the good brass and tried to research this excellent shooting round.
Seems I could not find any information on the 50 gr tipped, anywhere. Various online stores quoted vastly different velocities, and the Federal website was completely silent on this round. Didn't even show up on it's list of products. My curiosity was piqued and an email to Federal resulted in a spec sheet being sent to me.
Elsewhere I heard that this round was being used for military AR-15 competition, and was specifically made for that. It has the Hornaday V-Max 50 gr bullet, but with a different color (gray) tip. Obviously not a NATO approved round, but it shoots way under MOA most days.
The reputation of FC brass being soft applies to the 308 cartridges, not the 223. It is VERY hard. I have surpassed two dozen reloads on some of mine. I don't full length size, I use the Lee collet die to neck size only. It doesn't grow, never have to trim, and doesn't split necks. Run out is .002 or under and primer pockets remain tight. I sort by weight and toss the outliers.
Reloaded with the 53 gr V-Max, IMR3031 and CCI BR4 at 3250 fps and it shoots tiny groups. Especially with my son doing the shooting. We see 5 shot groups in the zero's fairly often. Best was .032 at 100 yds. No, we don't compete, just shoot for fun.
What does this prove? NOTHING! Just some anecdotal evidence that you don't have to spend a fortune to get an awesome shooting combination, and have a ton of fun with your kids.
I'm shooting two 223's. A Model 12BVSS with a Criterion 8 twist varmint, and a box-stock 12FV in a thumbhole laminate.
I began shooting American Eagle 50 gr Tipped Varmint as a warm up round after discovering how well they shot. I'd buy several hundred at a time on sale, sometimes as cheap as $4.89 a box of 20, but the cheapest ones had flash holes that were WAAAY off center. Still shot well, but tossed the brass afterwards. So I began harvesting the good brass and tried to research this excellent shooting round.
Seems I could not find any information on the 50 gr tipped, anywhere. Various online stores quoted vastly different velocities, and the Federal website was completely silent on this round. Didn't even show up on it's list of products. My curiosity was piqued and an email to Federal resulted in a spec sheet being sent to me.
Elsewhere I heard that this round was being used for military AR-15 competition, and was specifically made for that. It has the Hornaday V-Max 50 gr bullet, but with a different color (gray) tip. Obviously not a NATO approved round, but it shoots way under MOA most days.
The reputation of FC brass being soft applies to the 308 cartridges, not the 223. It is VERY hard. I have surpassed two dozen reloads on some of mine. I don't full length size, I use the Lee collet die to neck size only. It doesn't grow, never have to trim, and doesn't split necks. Run out is .002 or under and primer pockets remain tight. I sort by weight and toss the outliers.
Reloaded with the 53 gr V-Max, IMR3031 and CCI BR4 at 3250 fps and it shoots tiny groups. Especially with my son doing the shooting. We see 5 shot groups in the zero's fairly often. Best was .032 at 100 yds. No, we don't compete, just shoot for fun.
What does this prove? NOTHING! Just some anecdotal evidence that you don't have to spend a fortune to get an awesome shooting combination, and have a ton of fun with your kids.
You may know more than the rest of us!!! That is why I am asking. "Measure and sort" is for certain the start of a good plan...wasting time is not. It seems like to me that if the size die is doing it's job then the necks will show no runout after being sized. Mine don't. If they show it before, that could be the chamber they were fired in and again, the sizer will straighten out the neck so why sort for that???? Have I been missing something for 40 years??? I hope {there's that word you don't like again} so, that would explain most of my misses???
jpretle
Silver $$ Contributor
If you are looking to shoot Hi Power competitions, definitely sort at least year to year. Probably no need to go further than that, on targets that can be cleaned w/ a 2MOA gun. If you have a 2MOA hold, or less, in those positions, you will probably win all your matches, provided you can read the wind to 2MOA.
If you have aspirations of 'one hole groups', start w/ Lapua or Nosler brass.
If you have aspirations of 'one hole groups', start w/ Lapua or Nosler brass.
I do not know where you compete, but with the people I shoot with, 2 MOA does not win ANY of the matches. We must not be as sophisticated as you and do not know if it is us, the ammo, or, the gun. Maybe I should join your league where everyone walks away with a gold star!
So, jpretle, presuming that I am a ZERO MOA shooter, and I have a ZERO MOA gun, how do I develop loads so I can shoot at 1/2 MOA? (w/o starting w/ Lapua brass, weighing and discarding all that does not conform to a +/-1 0.0000001 gr. tolerance, etc., etc., etc.). My target (pun INTENDED) is 1/2 MOA at 600 yds. - 3.14" for the ammo - far from a one hole group.
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