• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Lapua Scenar L in 7mm

Hi folks, I have used the 180gr 7mm Hornady ELD-M with some success but currently they seem more than a little difficult to find. Would I be having serious issues if I switched to the 180gr Lapua Scenar-L? Being over in Europe they still seem to be available.

I'm only looking at these for target work so not worried about expansion properties.

Scrummy
 
I do not know what the bearing surface is on the Hornady bullets. However, with the 180 Scenars, you need a freebore of at least .285 and .300 may be better. They are telephone poles with a point on them! Having said that, they are very accurate and the B.C.s are the equal of the Berger 180 Hybrid. I have shot both the Scenars and the Hybrids and find no difference on paper to 1000 yards. BUT, once you throat out your chamber for the 180 Scenar, there are no other bullets that I know of (maybe the Hornady you are using) that has a bearing surface that long.
 
Thanks @ShootDots. I shall see if I can grab a few to load up and test the chamber.

I'd loading for a 7x64 (with a not quite standard amount of free bore) so should be OK I think. Certainly things like 175gr Nosler Partitions aren't an issue. Also I tend to load the Hornady 180gr ELD-Ms a tad shorter than max CIP COAL and that works well enough.

Scrummy
 
I don't know about that exact bullet, but for me other Scenars have been forgiving in load development and shot excellent.
 
I do not know what the bearing surface is on the Hornady bullets. However, with the 180 Scenars, you need a freebore of at least .285 and .300 may be better. They are telephone poles with a point on them! Having said that, they are very accurate and the B.C.s are the equal of the Berger 180 Hybrid. I have shot both the Scenars and the Hybrids and find no difference on paper to 1000 yards. BUT, once you throat out your chamber for the 180 Scenar, there are no other bullets that I know of (maybe the Hornady you are using) that has a bearing surface that long.
Ben - How do you figure they have equal BCs? Lapua lists .332 G7 and Berger .349 G7. That's enough to make a difference. And, looking at the Scenar, I'm not sure I buy .332.
 
Ben - How do you figure they have equal BCs? Lapua lists .332 G7 and Berger .349 G7. That's enough to make a difference. And, looking at the Scenar, I'm not sure I buy .332.
I shot them both out of 2 different Shehanes at Bayou Rifles. They both were travelling "about" 2910f.p.s. They both very closely impacted the 10 / X ring at 1000 without a scope adjustment. As far as wind "holding", I never noticed any difference at all.
 
Of those two, at long range you’ll be very glad you started using the Scenars. I believe that the ELDM is effectively the longest bodied 180 class 7mm to deal with, so if you have used them, then Scenars should not be a problem.

Berger and Hornady 180’s are easier to get started down the barrel than Scenars. In other words there’s a sharper pressure peak that’s noticeable if you run strong loads across the board as a rule and you may want to find a different powder that is perfect for them.

I can’t vouch for the BC being equal, and looking at a Lapua versus the world side by side I don’t think they are as high but the group size makes up the difference when it come to the ELDM at long range - now the A-Tip, that’s a different animal that may just be the one. (I don’t think Lapua claims as high a BC and they don’t lend themselves to pointing like Bergers do.).
 
Last edited:
I shot them both out of 2 different Shehanes at Bayou Rifles. They both were travelling "about" 2910f.p.s. They both very closely impacted the 10 / X ring at 1000 without a scope adjustment. As far as wind "holding", I never noticed any difference at all.

I have noticed scenars strike high despite their storage compartment nose. I have been baffled to the point of keeping that opinion discreetly to myself thinking it’s probably wrong. But I have also noticed they need bigger wind calls at Bayou where I’ll experiment around consecutively with options in club matches.
 
I do not know what the bearing surface is on the Hornady bullets. However, with the 180 Scenars, you need a freebore of at least .285 and .300 may be better. They are telephone poles with a point on them! Having said that, they are very accurate and the B.C.s are the equal of the Berger 180 Hybrid. I have shot both the Scenars and the Hybrids and find no difference on paper to 1000 yards. BUT, once you throat out your chamber for the 180 Scenar, there are no other bullets that I know of (maybe the Hornady you are using) that has a bearing surface that long.
Are you shooting these in 1 in 8 twist barrel
 
I have noticed scenars strike high despite their storage compartment nose. I have been baffled to the point of keeping that opinion discreetly to myself thinking it’s probably wrong. But I have also noticed they need bigger wind calls at Bayou where I’ll experiment around consecutively with options in club matches.
On one occasion, on one of those Tuesday / Friday 1000 yard load development days, I noticed that the Scenars actually shot about 1/2 the shots (out of 20) were HIGH in the X ring and the rest in the 10. They actually DID shoot about 3/8th minute high. Personally, I think the B.C.s are somewhat understated. Whether they are understated I do not know>>>>but you would not be able to convince me otherwise on paper.
 
The 195 is a fantastic performing bullet in the .284, and that cartridge won’t blow them up when the barrel is hot like an rsaum can do. Thin jacket and easy on brass heads to accelerate.

@Ned Ludd had written last year on a query of mine about how there can be deviation in the correlation between drop and BC and drift.

I’m still a little unclear but I revert to a mind picture to straighten it out. I think Lapua is in the land of exception where it drifts expectedly but drops less relative to its peers.

If I have it about right, 100 yard wind drift is 1/100 the amount of 1,000 yard drift. Doubling the distance to a target is 4 times the drift. Tripling the distance is 9 times the drift, etc. 1,000 yards is 10 times the distance of 100 yards and so bullet drift goes from say 1/3 an inch, to 33 inches - 100 times more. Whereas gravity pulls all objects downward at the same rate, but how fast forward motion slows down, is what is different between bullet’s BC.

So a bullet - mental image - that can resist being turned by wind such as a very high BC 16 inch naval cannon round will start at perhaps the identical velocity of a 300 win mag but drift relatively immeasurably in the first 1,000 yards, due to wind. It’ll retain velocity better and if both are fired to maximum range go six times further.

Just my opinion that the Lapua scenar drifts commensurate with stated BC relative to Berger, but the bullet somehow defies expected dropping. It’s made me wonder if its design essentially cheats the most rapid deceleration/turbulent stage bullets go through skipping straight(er) to perfectly stable, “asleep” flight, something that would subtly escape the hard prongs of rote bullet BC and velocity data, and net higher impacts. I’m just glad my high impact observation/opinion wasn’t spurious.

Whatever it is, it wasn’t an accident. Lapua has always had big heads in the game.
 
Last edited:
You would be able to shoot the Berger 195 Hunting bullets, which may be a better choice, since they have a long bearing surface too!
I've not played around with Berger's before. I'm shooting a 7x64 (Similar to 280 Rem) Don't think they would be leaving very quickly. Also, I hear they are finnicky on seating depth.

Scrummy
 
I've not played around with Berger's before. I'm shooting a 7x64 (Similar to 280 Rem) Don't think they would be leaving very quickly. Also, I hear they are finnicky on seating depth.

Scrummy
I am in your corner. I do not believe that the .280 or even the .280 Ackley has the horsepower to push the 195s "properly". The gents I know that are shooting them are using a 7 RSAUM Ackley Improved. This appears to be "the ticket" as they have a winning combination with them. Johnny Ingram, a.k.a. @johnnyi on this forum, was at the RoadRunner Regional a few months back at Ben Avery with his 7 RSAUM A.I. shooting the 195s and what he did was simply amazing! One of the matches had winds running over 30m.p.h. with gusts surpassing that. Most shooters dropped about 15-25 points (at 1000 yards).. Johnny dropped just 6 points and went on to win the regional against many, not just "some", of the best shooters in the country! The 195s are hard to beat>>> The 180 Scenars are in the same "camp" as the 180 Hybrids. T-Rust me, they are NOT in the same "camp" as the 195s..
 
I hear you and they look one heck of a bullet. But a 26" barrel 7x64 just won't get the best out of them I fear.

If I really can't get anymore 180-ELMs I shall experiment with some Lapua Scenar

(Funnily enough, I tend to shoot 100 to 600 with Sierra 160 TMKs. Nice and consistent and perhaps not surprisingly has the same zero (1.5" high at 100yds) as my go to hunting load of 160gr Sierra Gameking SBTs....) which is helpful ;)
 
... What Johnny did, caused me to spend a lot of money between that match and now, and I already had plenty of 195’s, and don’t have any more. :)).
 
Ben, are you sure Johnny was shooting the 195's? I thought he was running a190 of another flavor in Phoenix.
I believe he was shooting the 195s.. However, I would not strake my life on it! The only other bullet he shoots out of his A.I. is the Hornady 190 A-Tip. If he was shooting those, then I stand corrected. Maybe Johnny will see this thread and chime in..
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
164,971
Messages
2,187,415
Members
78,620
Latest member
Halfdeadhunter
Back
Top