Lapua Brass and Primers

[Nick Caprinolo]

One would think that new brass primer pockets were ready to go right out of the box. Not so! I recently attempted to load new Lapua brass in .223 Remington, with CCI primers. It seems that the primer pockets were not deep enough. After uniforming the pockets, problem was fixed.

Question is, why can't Lapua get it right. This is not the first time I have had this problem with Lapua brass.

Further, I have had problems when using Federal Primers in other brands of brass, because the Federal primers are a tiny bit longer that others brands.

Why can't these major manufactures get it together and decide on a standard for these products.

 

[Straightshooter1]

As good as Lapua's brass is produced and production lines are far advanced than generations ago, it's still a mass produced product subject to variances that mass production tends to induce. This is a good example of why I don't take Lapua brass for granted and like any other brass will apply my process of uniforming to get what I want for consistency. Maybe one day they WILL have production lines that can produce brass to the tolerances that picky handloaders can be satisfied with. But then . . . picky handloaders may move the goal posts again. ​

 

[rwj]

SAAMI defines the dimensional requirements for the primers and pockets (see image below). At the maximum material condition (tallest primer and shallowest pocket) the primers can be proud. Why is unknown. Perhaps there is a known change in primer height when the anvil contacts the bottom of the pocket?

 

[KevinThomas]

SAAMI defines the dimensional requirements for the primers and pockets (see image below). At the maximum material condition (tallest primer and shallowest pocket) the primers can be proud. Why is unknown. Perhaps there is a known change in primer height when the anvil contacts the bottom of the pocket?

View attachment 1144261

Just a quick point of info, but Lapua is bound by CIP standards, not SAAMI. They should be interchangeable, but there are a few points where the differences become line to line fits. You can wind up with situations wherein a min dimension SAAMI and a max dimension CIP item will wind up creating a very tight fit. Should work the other way too, but I don’t recall ever having seen an example of that.

 

[rwj]

Just a quick point of info, but Lapua is bound by CIP standards, not SAAMI. They should be interchangeable, but there are a few points where the differences become line to line fits. You can wind up with situations wherein a min dimension SAAMI and a max dimension CIP item will wind up creating a very tight fit. Should work the other way too, but I don’t recall ever having seen an example of that.

True. But isn’t the .223 Rem a SAAMI standard, not CIP? If the brass is stamped and sold as .223 Rem, it should comply with SAAMI specifications.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Point is that this is not just one lot of Lapua brass. I have experienced this difficulty with other runs and other calibers.

 

[Bc'z]

Brass prep sucks for the most part.
A full prep is SOP for me, regardless of manufacturer.

 

[rsmithsr50]

223 or 223 match lapua ?( I do not know it them make both , but 223 use to be a subcontract item, not actually lapua)

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

223 or 223 match lapua ?( I do not know it them make both , but 223 use to be a subcontract item, not actually lapua)

They are marked match and they were purchased recently.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

I have noticed with Lapua 223 brass when i use my carbide uniformer to clean and uniform that it cuts some of the bottoms bright and shiny with shavings coming out, but the next one doesn't touch the bottom of the pocket ? Leaving dark carbon residue. This makes it so i can't sleep at night.

 

[Ccrider]

Yea. I know that no one touches Lapua 220 Russian/6ppc pockets. I also know that some of the holes are larger than others. I found this out the first time I had to remove cleaning media from primer pockets. The pic I was using for in some holes, but not in others. Ultimately it must not matter for 6ppc.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

A pocket uniformer is not meant to be a pocket cleaner.

Yes it will scrap the carbon out of the bottom of the pocket the first time you use it on fired cases. After that, since you have taken to pocket down to it's maximum depth, there is no metal left to remove. If the carbon deposits are very thick, it will most likely remove most of it.

 

[rsmithsr50]

unless subsequent firings MOVE the pocket.
yep it happens. I typically CLEAN with a uniformer.

A pocket uniformer is not meant to be a pocket cleaner.

Yes it will scrap the carbon out of the bottom of the pocket the first time you use it on fired cases. After that, since you have taken to pocket down to it's maximum depth, there is no metal left to remove. If the carbon deposits are very thick, it will most likely remove most of it.

 

[Bc'z]

A pocket uniformer is not meant to be a pocket cleaner.

Yes it will scrap the carbon out of the bottom of the pocket the first time you use it on fired cases. After that, since you have taken to pocket down to it's maximum depth, there is no metal left to remove. If the carbon deposits are very thick, it will most likely remove most of it.

I beg to differ sir.
I use a Lyman uniformer to clean my pockets.
Right now I'm processing 200 6mm223 cases.
When it was new unfired brass from Swift, uniformer would not touch bottom of pockets. I'm cutting the corners on every piece.
It's my belief the web moves a bit with firing.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I have used Lapua .223 Rem brass for years, buying new Lots on a regular basis for F-TR rifles. I have never once encountered primer pockets that had to be uniformed for the primer to be seated to the appropriate depth in the pocket. However, I only use Fed 205s, not CCIs. Is it possible the primer itself might contribute to the issue?

 

[mikecr]

It doesn't surprise me that a particular lot of it is different.
W/regard to thickness variance of Lapua 6br cases, I've seen the best, and I've seen the worst (in my life, among all brands).

One of the worst notions out there is that 'if it's Lapua you don't have to prep it'.

 

[mikeeg02]

I beg to differ sir.
I use a Lyman uniformer to clean my pockets.
Right now I'm processing 200 6mm223 cases.
When it was new unfired brass from Swift, uniformer would not touch bottom of pockets. I'm cutting the corners on every piece.
It's my belief the web moves a bit with firing.

I agree, some powders move them back quicker than others. I use a sinclair uniformer every firing to clean the pockets of mine.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

I have used Lapua .223 Rem brass for years, buying new Lots on a regular basis for F-TR rifles. I have never once encountered primer pockets that had to be uniformed for the primer to be seated to the appropriate depth in the pocket. However, I only use Fed 205s, not CCIs. Is it possible the primer itself might contribute to the issue?

Primer gets seated to the bottom of the pocket, so if one pocket is deeper than another pocket then there will be a measurable difference between loaded rounds. The goal is uniformity. We have to accept certain tolerance difference's but when cases have pockets so deep that a uniformer won't contact the bottom that is not desirable at all. Maybe i should send a strongly worded letter over to Lapua.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I understand what the goal is. What I am stating is that I have never seen any issues with Lapua primer pockets whatsoever in literally well over than ten thousand pieces of brass over a period of years. That suggests the possibility that there could have been an issue with the primer pockets of a very limited number of specific Lots of Lapua brass, OR that it's not a problem with the brass at all.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

Yes it could be bad lot of brass , every brass type i have used always could be uniformed so all pockets are the same depth except these 223 Lapua -3 box's . how it could not be an issue with the brass itself is not sensible to me because i can look in and see that the uniformer is not touching bottom on about 20% of the cases. If a person doesn't look for an issue many times they don't know one exists. I have shown many times to friends how or why there was a problem with this or that and they would have never seen it . apparently i look closer and observe closer than others.