Lapua "Blue Box" brass???

[potatohead]

I just had a rifle built and the goal was varminting. The it was built by Sharp Shooters Supply and he used his own reamer. I asked for it to be chambered for 75 grain V-max's and I didn't want to turn the necks. I ordered Lapua brass and it came in the "blue box" I just read about on here. I ordered Redding Dies with the competition seater but their regular FL sizing die. I loaded 20 rounds and broke the barrel in via. Kreigers instructions. Then I went to reload those 20 pieces of brass to work up a load. When I went to seat the bullets the brass wouldn't hold the bullet. I could pull them out. My guess is that the blue box brass is new and has a thinner neck and isn't sizing right?? Maybe the body of the die isn't bringing the neck size back down enough since it's thinner?? Also I don't have all the cool tools needed for precision reloading so I used a 308 case to check how far I pushed the shoulder back. I found that even with the die hitting the shell holder I was getting ZERO shoulder bump. What are my next steps? I have 300 pieces of brass that I can only use once until the neck deal is figured out.

This is my first post and I KNOW if anyone can help me it will be here. At least as far as rifles.....probably need "professional" help for my other problems!! THANKS MUCH for any help.

 

[rangertim]

P.M. sent

 

[RonAKA]

Your guess about the brass in the neck being too thin is probably correct. However, I would expect that a standard resizing die should be necking it down enough to hold the bullet. I would question Redding on what is going on. That does not make sense. They seem to have given you a die with a neck that is too large, or the expander ball is too large.

What you ideally need is a bushing/bump die. I would recommend the Forster. See this link.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=962615

You will need a bushing for it, and I would guess 0.266. Forster have a couple of methods of selecting the correct size. See link below:

http://www.forsterproducts.com/client_images/catalog19938/pages/files/Bushing_Bump_Neck_Sizing_Die_DIE-0008.pdf

The first method requires the thickness of the neck brass, which is not so easy to measure accurately. The second method they describe is easier if you have an accurate micrometer. However it assumes the bullet has a fit in the neck. In your case you don't. So you probably have to be a minimum of 0.002" less than your measured OD.

It is still strange that your FL die does not work. Would suggest it may be defective. Or your brass is really thin. Does the expander ball have any resistance when you lower the case after sizing? If it does have resistance then it suggests the ball is too big, if the neck can't hold the bullet. If there is no resistance, this suggests the brass is way to thin, or the FL die neck is too large.

 

[750k2]

Remove the expander ball and try it.
If that works just turn the ball down,
Or spring for a bushing die.

 

[SmokinJoe]

Make sure that your FL die isn't a type "S" die - with no neck sizing bushing in it. Easy to miss from the outside. I agree that a regular (non-bushing) FL die should be sizing it plenty to hold a bullet. Do you feel the expander when the case is withdrawn from the size die?

 

[KevinThomas]

Potatohead,

The case necks should be able to hold the bullets with any normal resizing operation here, since the "new" Lapua 6mm BR brass is done to CIP/SAAMI specs. They should work fine with any standard dies. It's already been asked here, but what type of dies are you using? Someone has already mentioned the possibility of a Type-S die being used without a bushing, and no, you wouldn't be the first. I've actually seen some very experienced reloaders do some serious head-scratching when doing the exact same thing. Worth asking, anyway.

Drop me a personal line and we'll get it figured out, no problem. I'l be down in Ft Benning for the rest of the week, but will be back here on Monday.

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

 

[potatohead]

What a fantastic site this is! Much thanks to everyone who posted. Rangertim and I figured this out last night and it is a type S so I need a bushing or 2. The die came with 2 types of expander/decapper. One does both and the other I have to get a expander ball.....what do I need to do to determine the size I need? The neck bushing Tim has explained. Thank you so much for the help everyone!

 

[RonAKA]

Load about 20 rounds of the new lapua brass, and measure all the necks. Take the smallest number you get, check it, and subtract 0.002". That is the bushing size you need.

Most do not use an expander ball in a bushing type die. I use one that measures 0.2423" in diameter. It probably does little but smooth the interior of the neck.

 

[fella5]

I just loaded some "Blue Box Lapua" and the neck wall was 0.012. I used a 0.266 Wilson neck bushing and the loaded round measured 0.2675. The bullet is not easy to pull, but I just ordered a 0.265 redding bushing in case I need more neck tension. I have the Redding Competition Bushing Neck Die Set and also have Wilson dies. However, I have never used a dies with an expander ball even for my .223 REM. I know some that do and they polish the expander ball down very little to allow for more neck tension.

 

[rangertim]

Potato Head You no that Smokin Joe guy" You got to watch out listening to Him, He has been known to hang out with that R.G Robinett aka BIB bullet guy,LOL . If you want to talk that 30BR stuff, Its like Merrill Lynch (you better listen to what they have to say) Glad I could help out charlie. Tim

 

[Nomo4me]

Is your Redding die a bushing die? If so what size bushing are you using?

Give us a mic reading on the OD of a unsized fired case from your chamber - should be around .272"

 

[potatohead]

So I've been away at work but made some time to get these measurements. Fired case is .267 to a few at .268 inch. Then the loaded is .266 inch. I am shooting moly coated 70 grain nosler BT. I ordered .265 and .264 bushings. I may end up with some other sizes after I load up some other rounds as they maybe slightly larger diameter??? Some posted needing .266 bushings but that seems too big for what I found.

Also can someone explain to me what the difference is between the 6BR Remington and the Lapua. I read that the 6mm Lapua case length is slightly longer than the Remington. My Redding die set says 6BR Remington. My rifle says 6BR Norma. DO I HAVE THE WRONG DIES?? I'm using Lapua brass and I've read about the first load with these are being fire formed and that you (I) should jam the bullets. I'm a little concerned that I am only touching the lands with these brand new loads/brass. After inspecting the fired brass I can see 2-4 very small shiny spots on the mouth/tip of the case. These are on opposite sides from each other. Also 90 degrees off from the spots I can see where blow by has occured on the necks. The shiny spots are VERY small and I can feel them just a little. They are very faint. Should I trim the new brass first before I fire? I'm sure I will be asked what the brass measures but right now I have NO unfired brass with me.

Thanks again. A LOT of knowledge on this site with a lot of people who are willing to help a fellow shooter out. It's fantastic and I'm going to have many more questions as I have a few more projects under way.

Charlie

 

[RonAKA]

If your dies are new, they should be fine. I believe the cartridge is now standardized, but the name confusion remains. You should not need to trim cases for a while. Mine came at 1.555". Standard maximum length is 1.560. I don't plan to trim them until they get that long. They seem to be growing about a half a thou per firing, so that could take a while.

On bushing size if you read the link to the Forster manual that I posted earlier, they recommend a bushing 1 thou smaller for moly coated bullets.

 

[potatohead]

On bushing size if you read the link to the Forster manual that I posted earlier, they recommend a bushing 1 thou smaller for moly coated bullets.

Thank you Ron. I did read that and I may need to get a smaller bushing but was thinking I maybe ok for the time being. I only have about 90 more of the noslers and from what I was reading in this string of posts is that most have larger neck diameters than I have loaded with the noslers. I plan on trying v-maxes and am hoping that the Sierra varminters will work good for me because they are much cheaper and I'm about the bang for the buck!! I was thinking that the bullets other than the noslers may run a thou fatter??? I'm hoping at least or maybe my brass has a thinner neck then the others?? I dont know but I may end up needing another bushing. Redding suggested .001 subtracted from loaded round. Will the added tension from .001 make much difference? Thank you for help. I have Forster dies for my .204 Ruger and .19 Badger and do like them a lot!

 

[potatohead]

Also THANK YOU for putting my mind at ease about the dies and trim length!! It's been running through my head for the last 24 hours. Thinking that I'm destroying my chamber!! I still wonder what is making the marks and why my blow by is 90 degrees off of the marks on the case mouth.

 

[RonAKA]

I'm using a .267 bushing with the older Lapua brass from the cardboard box. Loaded rounds are right around 0.269. I recall that some report the new Lapua brass is 0.001" thinner, or 0.002" less on measured diameter. So you may very well need a .265 bushing, or perhaps even 0.264.

I've only measured three 6mm bullet types with some accuracy to see how they vary in diameter. Haven't seen variances as much as 0.001". Results as follows;

Bullet Type, Pressure ring diameter, Body diameter

Berger 62, 0.24325, 0.24283
Berger 68, 0.24316, 0.24269
Barts Ultra 68, 0.24313, 0.24274

 

[potatohead]

Ron where is the "pressure ring"? I am about 90% sure I read that noslers run on the thin side. My disclaimer is that "I read it on the internet".

 

[RonAKA]

Ron where is the "pressure ring"? I am about 90% sure I read that noslers run on the thin side. My disclaimer is that "I read it on the internet".

Not sure if it is by design, or by necessity of fabrication, but flat base bullets can have a short ring right at the base that is larger in diameter than the full sized body part right ahead of it. I have not measured many boat tails but I don't believe they have the pressure ring.

I don't use Nosler bullets in my 6mm, but have a box of Partition 6.5mm for my hunting gun. Measured a few, and they do seem to measure a little on the smaller side. Didn't detect a pressure ring, and they measured 0.2632 to 0.2634".

Keep in mind that bullets do vary from lot to lot, and as the die they are made with wears.

 

[SmokinJoe]

If you don't have the reamer print, or have any doubt about the chamber OAL, and it sounds like you do, get one of the 6mm chamber OAL spuds from Sinclair. Trim a fireformed, sized case back to accomodate the spud, seat it part way, then check your chamber OAL with it. Repeat the process about 3 times until you get consistent measurements. Now you will know exactly how long your chamber is, and what to trim the brass to for your particular rifle. I do this for every barrel I have chambered. Sometimes there are some surprises! Let us know what the measuement is after you check it. BTW, use an inertia bullet puller to get the spud back out to take successive measurements.

 

[potatohead]

If you don't have the reamer print, or have any doubt about the chamber OAL, and it sounds like you do, get one of the 6mm chamber OAL spuds from Sinclair. Trim a fireformed, sized case back to accomodate the spud, seat it part way, then check your chamber OAL with it. Repeat the process about 3 times until you get consistent measurements. Now you will know exactly how long your chamber is, and what to trim the brass to for your particular rifle. I do this for every barrel I have chambered. Sometimes there are some surprises! Let us know what the measuement is after you check it. BTW, use an inertia bullet puller to get the spud back out to take successive measurements.

WOW.....never heard of this one. I will look into that for sure. You think I could just ask for the reamer specks? I think he does a great job, it was built by Fred at sharp shooters supply and the only negative things I hear is about their customer service....the difference between when they quote a finished product and when it is actually finished. I think I really need to look at buying my own reamers from now on. I see the benefits. Not sure if the step mentioned above would be needed if I went this route???