ladder test question

[MildBill]

I am going to do a ladder test with my 223 to try to find some nodes to focus around working up a load.

This will be my first "kick at the can" doing a ladder test.

looking at using benchmark powder with 50 grain bullets, and go up in 0.2 grain increments

I can do it at 200 yards easy enough, 300 yds might be tough with the optics I have or else I may have to get a bigger target to center in on.

Will 200 yards be far enough out to sort things out?

or is this another one of those things with reloading that only the gun can tell me if 200 is far enough?

Thanks

 

[FroggyOne2]

It can be done at 200 yards, just make sure to plot each shot as they are shot on a piece of paper as you go. Use numbers as you plot the shots to keep track the ladder. Also .2 is to close, use .3 instead. When you find the node, then go from .2 below the node to .2 above the node in .1 increments.

 

[MildBill]

well...

I loaded up the ladder test loads, four replications, two reps with Rem 7.5 primers and two reps with CCI BR4 primers, curious to see how they different primers may perfrom....

going from 24 grains to 26.4 grains of benchmark in 0.3 grain increments and pushing sierra 50 grain blitzking bullets.

now for a long enough stretch of decent weather to get a chance to try them out.

 

[Lapua40X]

Suggestion:
I don't bother with traditional targets for ladder testing. The cardboard from a discarded refrigerator box with an aiming point that is clearly visible and makes it easy to make any necessary scope adjustments is all I use. I also prefer ladder testing at 300 yards but, as previously mentioned, 200 yards data can be used if that's all the distance you can muster. I usually place the aiming point about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the cardboard. Of course, you'll need a good spotting scope that can read the hits easily over the distance you're planning to use.

 

[bheadboy]

Mildbill,

i find the targets that have the 1 inch lines like a grid as helpful in determing point of impact. there are lots of them you can download - some from this web page, so cost is not a problem.
i agree start with .3gr then when it is in the group area you want try .2, unless you are shooting a Br rifle with all the goodies .1 is not necessary as there are other varialbes that come into play at that level.

Bob

 

[MildBill]

thanks for the input and ideas.

I have some appliance box cardboard on hand here that I use for target backing.

I think I am going to set up a 300 yd target and see if I am able to make it work before doing a 200 yard test. I can see where the longer distance will help separate out the differences.

I have a hunch the optics on the scope may be the drawback, 3-9 x40 nikon monarch, it is a good one, but may not be enough magnification..... might be ok if I have a big enough aim point....

I have a 16 -48 x 60 nikon pro staff spotting scope so I think I am ok there.

 

[Lapua40X]

I have a hunch the optics on the scope may be the drawback, 3-9 x40 nikon monarch, it is a good one, but may not be enough magnification..... might be ok if I have a big enough aim point....

If you have the BDC reticle it could be a bit difficult to fine tune the sight picture but if you don't worry about where you're aiming on the target's horizontal plane and simply make sure you're consistent where you line up each shot, magnification and reticle shouldn't be a major factor. You can always line a thicker horizontal cross hair with the bottom edge of any horizontal line on the target, that should be good enough cuz you're only interested in the vertical spread.

 

[FroggyOne2]

For a ladder test target, I use an old drafting paper sheet. I just put a red dot in the middle of the paper. A bingo marker works for me most times.

 

[LCazador]

For ladder tests at long distance , I suggest the " Shoot and See" targets with the one inch grid .

 

[22BRGUY]

I've been able to devise my own 2'x4' shoot and see targets that work for me out to 600 yards. I bought some 1/4" 2'x4' foil backed siding underlayment at Menards; then covered the foil side with clear contact paper and then sprayed over the contact paper with flat black paint. When a bullet strikes the board, the flat black paint is knocked off and the very visable silver foil shows up well against the flat black paint.

 

[Lapua40X]

When a bullet strikes the board, the flat black paint is knocked off and the very visible silver foil shows up well against the flat black paint.

Thanks for sharing this terrific idea. 8) I"m on my way to the home improvement center to pick up a sheet of that stuff.

 

[FroggyOne2]

I have a friend and fellow shooter that is in the siding biz, he kinda does the same thing.

 

[22BRGUY]

One additional thing is that some flat blacks work better than others. Theres a brand at Walmart thats called "Weekender" that seems to work really well.

 

[MildBill]

so far today I am being rained out.... so much for the sunny day forecast.....

 

[MildBill]

had a chance to attempt to do the ladder test this evening..... not a positive outcome.....

300 yards was not working out due to equipment and terrain limitations. ended up doing it at around 225 yards give or take a little bit.

Here are the vertical differentials from zero for the different charge weights using the Rem 7 1/2 primers.

24.9 gr -2.0"
25.2 gr right on zero
25.5 gr -3.75" (shot it twice thinking hmmmm, what the hay????) both same place
25.8 gr -1.0
26.1 gr -0.5
26.4 gr -1.5"

26.1 and 26.4 were also 3 " right of the others, which were more or less in a verticle line or close enough not to think much about.

also pulled out 223 ackley and shot a group to see if the dummy pulling the trigger was messing up and all bullet holes touching

the batch loaded with the cci BR4's had 4 rounds that did not go off, out of 14 shot, still trying to figure that one out. Although in general that ladder test was a lot tighter, but it has other problems.

 

[savageshooter86]

don't happen to have the target to post a photo do you?

It looks like 26.1 would be where to work if you did a true ladder test and 25.8-26.4 shot that amount of vertical off center aim point. That should be your node. You could load just those 3 charges again to verify. Or I would go 26.1 gr load and load up some seating depth test and shoot for groups.

**Now when you say ladder test you aimed at same spot, and shot 1 shot of each charge not making any adjustment to scope or holding over correct? If not, then I think your data is useful for you and you found your load**

 

[MildBill]

don't happen to have the target to post a photo do you?

**Now when you say ladder test you aimed at same spot, and shot 1 shot of each charge not making any adjustment to scope or holding over correct? If not, then I think your data is useful for you and you found your load**

I aimed at the same spot each time.

When doing the same with the cci BR 4 primers instead here is what I got, not that I have figured out what is going on with that target.

24.9 gr -3.0"
25.2 gr -2.5"
25.5 gr -0.25"
25.8 gr -3.0 and -1.75 shot twice as the first one was almost in the same hole as 24.9.
26.1 both primers appear to be duds... no bang
after that I did not bother with 26.4

I will look into putting pictures up later today if I can get that worked out.

 

[MildBill]

Here is a picture. Rem 7 1/2 primer target is on left, and CCI BR-4 on the right

 

[4xforfun]

Let me ask a dumb question. is this going to be a dedicated long range rig? I mean, like 500 yards and out kinda gun?

If so, then a ladder test is the way to go.

If not, then why waste the time...just shoot some two or three shot groups at 100 and find your node that way. Once you find a couple of nodes you can switch to 5 shot groups for the tune.

I do my ladder testing at 750 or 1000, but these are dedicated LR bench guns....and ladder tests can tell you volumes at long range...not so much at 200.

My point is that LOTS of LR guys shoot ladder tests....I have never heard of a short range BR guy doing one. No point in it.

Just my .02,
Tod

 

[MildBill]

this is for my varmint/ coyote rifles.

looking to get loads dialed in that I have confidence in.

This won't won't be a prairie dog rig

more like ground hogs, coyotes, skunks feral cats etc and plinking.

probably more like out to 300 yards.

the idea was to find a range to work within to dial it in.