Things are sure different today because we use more accurate rifles with solid scopes to dial practiced yardage with. Not too far back we used a duplex reticle sighted in at 200, totally a different world for estimating longer shots.
Lack of ethics in long range Hunting Breakdown
- Thread starter Wolfdog91
- Start date
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
Kracken.....you bring up a good point. Anyone shooting long today not using a laser range finder is totally irresponsible. Yes, you can do it with a topo map , calipers, and knowledge of an area but how many hunters are skilled in that, very few. My longest shot at and kill on a deer was 700 yards using this method. I would say I hit within 2 inches of my aiming spot but a lot of preseason work at that spot went into the end result. Now my range finder rides in my binocular bag . Whatever the max range is advertised on the rangefiner its usually only good too about half that distance on an animal.
drop_point
Silver $$ Contributor
There are many, many variables. It is foolhardy to judge others. especially if you don't know their abilities, experience, and equipment. I've experienced this from both sides. I was recently on a big game hunt with a few guys. We had two spotters and two shooters. One shooter made a questionable shot and landed a bullet in the leg of a big game animal. I didn't like that he was shooting a rifle he'd never even shot at those ranges, but his spotter doped it and called the wind. Before he could rack his bolt, I put a round in the animal and killed it instantly. That shot was 670 yards. It was an easy shot for me.
Recently saw one of those podcast videos uploaded on youtube where "traditional" and "modern" cartridges were compared. The older gentleman was against anyone shooting past PBR with a rifle because of time of flight. I pulled out the calculator and pointed out his choice cartridge at 400 yards had a 20% longer time of flight than the 6.5 PRC, 6.8 Western, 28 Nosler, etc. He asserts that 600 yards may just be unethical, but he came into the discussion with a poor understanding of external ballistics.
Recently saw one of those podcast videos uploaded on youtube where "traditional" and "modern" cartridges were compared. The older gentleman was against anyone shooting past PBR with a rifle because of time of flight. I pulled out the calculator and pointed out his choice cartridge at 400 yards had a 20% longer time of flight than the 6.5 PRC, 6.8 Western, 28 Nosler, etc. He asserts that 600 yards may just be unethical, but he came into the discussion with a poor understanding of external ballistics.
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
If you have to rationalize the shot either before or after, it's not an ethical hunting shot.
jds holler
Gold $$ Contributor
I'll only say this about that; I've shot a pretty fair number of deer and elk. Almost all of the ugly kill stories I've experienced (to my shame) have occurred when I shot an animal beyond my responsible range. jd
PRS shooters miss too. I have shot PRS and have participated in the Long Range Operators' challenge have friends that are sponsored shooters. Not at any time did I say that PRS rifles are inaccurate, but most are not hunting rifles either.
The point is that a man must know his limits, and PRS targets at long range are larger than 1 minute. In field conditions, hitting an animal in the vitals with the first shot at a distance is more challenging. We are not talking about hitting the edge of an IPSC target that is larger.
I enjoy watching and learning from great shooters, and I invite anyone to come to stay at my place in Wyoming and let us go and shoot. I will walk the 10" steel out to a thousand or more if you feel and watch you put your first round hit on it. I am always willing to learn.
When shooting at an animal, one must (if he can) humble himself for the sake of the animal. That is ethical. Eastwood said it best "a man needs to know his limits."
We were at an event at Ben Avery Range in Phoenix. The 1000 yard range was being used as a parking lot.
I have this friend who is always talking long range hunting. He does his practice at 200 yards because it’s the longest available where he shoots.
We went to the bench end with binoculars and a third person went to the target end and held out a Kleenex, high contrast, then a dirty red shop cloth from back of truck, low contrast.
The Want to be long range shooter decided he needs much more practice at real long range.
I have this friend who is always talking long range hunting. He does his practice at 200 yards because it’s the longest available where he shoots.
We went to the bench end with binoculars and a third person went to the target end and held out a Kleenex, high contrast, then a dirty red shop cloth from back of truck, low contrast.
The Want to be long range shooter decided he needs much more practice at real long range.
I get it. I do. I've shot animals( predators/varmints) at over 1K with rifles I can keep 4" groups with at that range easily. At that range, pulling the trigger and the animal moving at just about that same second can be the difference of a wounded animal or dead one. Because it's never happened to me makes me more confident. I will carry on doing what I'm confident I can keep doing. That's all we can do. Train for it and conquer it. The rest is out of our hands.
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100% Dead On. Coyotes and ground hogs are what I'll kill at the loooongest ranges. Big game...ONLY when zero wind is present and likey 800 or less. I'm confident in some wind but not 100%. Not worth it to wound an animal I can get close to and anchor 100% of the time.
That’s why I love ARs. A elk or deer steps out at a grand, I jus git ta blastin’. One will eventually hit them.
What’s the difference in a deer and a yote when they are both overpopulated.
I'd shoot coyote's just for fun. That's the difference to me.
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What? It’s an animal too! I thought you were going to say that they are smaller and something from a deer cartridge type rifle will dispatch them pretty quick with any type of torso hit.
Gary in MD
Gold $$ Contributor
If everyone would just stop with the inadequate cartridge choices! Just get yourself a 6.5 CreamMore and you’re all set for those 1000+ shots. Hell, it’s got so much power that it will kill the animal even if you hit the b*stard in the foot!!
Try doing that good or should I say bad, out on the hunt.
It is more of a personal issue I have with coyotes. Had them wipe out a litter of pups in my kennel once. Most killed and found a couple pups with guts tore wide open. Died in my lap. They kill every fawn they come across and need managing anyway they can be managed. Sorry if I don't have much humanity in me when it comes to there being shot whether killed or wounded. There all the same. Killing machines with zero rules. My adoption of that mentality applies to shooting them as well. If I hit one with any rifle I hunt them with, it won't matter where there hit, they won't kill another fawn again. They'll die eventually.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
That's a sick thing. Kill em all I dont care. But do it right. They run on instinct. Causing unnecessary pain to an animal without empathy is not a good trait.
Guess I'm running on instinct too when it comes to coyotes. I instinctively kill them whenever I get the chance. It seems to please most farmers, hunters and livestock owners. My comment about wounding them for fun was not a serious statement. I've wounded some trying to kill them. Did I care, Nope. It wasn't intentional either. I just do not care if it happens as a result of trying to kill them. Empathy has zero to do with it.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
No, humans have the ability to rationalize. We dont run on instinct. If your comment was in jest we can both delete our posts because that's not really a good way to portray sportsman and it will be gone.
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