Lack of ethics in long range Hunting Breakdown

[K22]

If you do enough practical range practice meaning shooting in the manner in which you intend to hunt you can start to learn your limitations.

And it can be different for different shooters because of different skill levels, the caliber of rifle being used, accuracy of the rifle, and the field shooting aid used. Also, the vital area of the animal being hunting is a significant factor.

For example, a fellow I knew shot a custom 22 250 off a portable field bench. He routinely made shots on groundhogs out to 500 yards with his high-quality scope with precise dial capabilities- I've seen him do it.

Whereas I'm limited to about 275 yards shooting off a cross stick with a 223 Rem even though my varmint rifles are in the 1/2 to sub 1/2 moa accuracy area. In the prone with a bipod and 22 250 I can extend that range out further to about 325 yards.

 

[AWS]

I try and stay away from these LR discussions but I'm going to jump in. I've seen some that could shoot ethically a long range and would pass up a shot that they found slightly questionable. Then there is the next guy that will shoot at anything in sight just because he spent alot of money on his gear and has hit a piece of steel out there a ways from a bench.

There are no wind flags going across the valley, there isn't a bench set up on the hillside. Wind is a real factor and at a half mile there can be more than subtle wind shifts across that distance. Shooting in egg shoots I've had to hold 3-4" of the egg because of the wind and it isn't constant.

At our range we have a 1000 yard range and I have yet to see any hunter practicing from field positions. I have seen one guy shooting prone with a service rifle full shooting coat and mat, I doubt he was getting ready for elk season.

I spent a lot more time in the field coyote hunting than the average hunter, I can shoot as many as I want, have 10,000 square miles of mostly public land within 50 miles of my house and no season other than what I place on myself(I shoot for pelts or ADC for ranchers). My personal limit is 300 yards, I spend a lot of time at the range shooting off of sticks and my open country rifles shoot flat enough to hold on fur to that range. 300 yards on a coyote from field positions is a long shot in my book.

If you can do it ethically, do it. It is like I say about duck hunting, "Shoot the ones you KNOW you can kill, pass on the ones you HOPE you can kill".

 

[searcher]

I'm shredding on "that old guy" because I have watched a few of his vids and I think he is a legend in his own mind. I am not a 1000 yd deer/ elk hunter, but "if" the wind was steady and light would have no issue with a 5-600 yd shot rested on a rock or something else sturdy, with my 7RM. When the wind is swirling, my max range is reduced accordingly.

I'm far from defending the old guy. He is in his own world - as I said.

 

[searcher]

I teach firearm safety. On Tuesday night we were talking about ethics (not related to this). A young lady asked me how far away was considered an unethical shot on game. I asked her if she'd ever shot a gun and she said "no" so I told her all shots on game would be unethical until she was proficient with a rifle. "What about after that?" "Depends on caliber and capabilities, wind, rifle ect." I said. She kept asking questions and her opinion was anything beyond 200 yards is unethical. There was a time where that was pretty much true! For a lot of hunters it still is.

I'm happy for anyone at any range so long as they are capable. Bad shots are always unethical IMO.

Yeah - I had a neighbor a long time ago (80's) and he had just returned from an antelope hunt in Colorado. I asked him how the hunt went. He replied "incredible! it was so good... we had to run into town and buy many more boxes of ammo". I was kind of stunned that anyone could miss that many times. But his entire group did. I suggested it was pretty amazing a ricochet didn't get at least one.....

 

[209jones]

I had a 400yd range at a farm in the late 80's and to late 90's. Challenged people to shoot at 300 just sitting on their butts and shooting at an 18" target. It humbled a lot of folk that "had shot elk and deer @ 400yds". Of say 3 dozen folk that shot it, a first round hit on that target was a rare occurrence, alone a kill shot, many couldn't get a kill shot wthin 4 shots, some would dump a mag without a hit. The onset of rangefinders humbled a few of them too. "i shot him from here over to there, solid 400 yds", rangefinder said 250. For myself not having done it in quite a while, I find me tellng myself, with mirage and winds, guess we have to relearn this all over again. I bought a SxS to go hunting with these days, as in looking at what I'd shot over the years, 95% were 200yds or less. But, I am in the process of working my way to longer yardages on a range, just for the challenge of it. Not for hunting purposes though, the challenge for me in hunting is spot and stalk, to see how close In I can get, that's fun to me. After archery hunting, things like walking across a cut block to 35yds on 7 does, gun hunting seems like a gimme shot these days.

 

[muleystalker]

Nothing I enjoy more then being told what is ethical, usually by the guy that's busy zeroing his rifle at 25y for his upcoming hunt next week

Yup....Sub Minute of Pie Plate! LOL

 

[L.Sherm]

I love the saying " minute of deer is good enough"

 

[hunter67]

how much does a first round hit matter in that scenario?

(This is an actual question)

Well, let us see. A range with wind flags, concrete bench, and guns designed to do the job with guys who are shooting for money and records. Oh ya a lot of them shoot at that range often like it's their backyard. Have you ever gone to a bench match? It is quite a feather to shoot not only spotters but the rest of the string for a great group. There are making the best shots for the best data input.

 

[DangerRanger]

Well, let us see. A range with wind flags, concrete bench, and guns designed to do the job with guys who are shooting for money and records. Oh ya a lot of them shoot at that range often like it's their backyard. Have you ever gone to a bench match? It is quite a feather to shoot not only spotters but the rest of the string for a great group. There are making the best shots for the best data input.

Nope that’s why I asked and even put that it was an actual question but thanks for the cheek

My understanding was that the first round wouldn’t be part of anything that actually mattered for their score/competition. That’s incorrect I guess?

Surprising to me that prs guys seem to do it fine with their inaccurate rifles and no wind flags

 

[Wellington]

It is about respect. If you have respect for another creature you will make damn sure you feel fully confident that you can make the shot. A person that respects will never take a shot that they are hoping or wishing a good outcome for.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

how much does a first round hit matter in that scenario?

(This is an actual question)

It doesnt. I assume its F Class. We dont even track it in BR. You just get a little token for a first round x or 10 in F Class. I dont think anyone really tries for it or cares though. Not a good way of looking at it. Now if it was $500 for closest to center on a first shot then you could look at it.

 

[DangerRanger]

Thanks Alex

 

[300_whisper]

That bro in the video is the fuddiest of fudds. He’ll probably be the first in the boogaloo to walk out with a garand and 45 wearing a Fanny pack. Then he’ll get winded and walk back inside and go to sleep.

These threads are why I got off long range hunting.

Do what’s within your rifles and your capabilities.
Don’t tell anyone else what to do. Big boy rules, or else we end up in an over regulated dystopian society where everyone is easily offended and demands regulations to get their whinny ways.

 

[Adam in WI]

These threads are why I got off long range hunting.

You pissed Len off too, didn't you?

 

[300_whisper]

You pissed Len off too, didn't you?

No he pissed me off. Asked for help for a buddy with medical issues to shoot out to a mile and he deleted the post saying it was a newb question.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I dont post there too often because of the ethics ban. I dont need to be told what I can or cant say. Ethics are certainly involved. Banning the discussion reminds me of the left.

 

[Bamban]

The trouble is ...Every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks that just because they have the latest and greatest cartridge they can make a clean 1 shot kill at 1000-1500 yds. Most times they have no shooting skills or hunting skills other than the camo they bought at Wall Mart.

Be careful, the 6.5CM fan boys might disagre with you....didn't you get the memo, the 6.5CM can equal a 300WM up to 1000 yards.....Having fun.

 

[Downeast]

Never cared much for hunting videos. Hunting to me is between me, the animal, and God. At the end of the day if you are successful you have taken the life of a wild animal that meant you no harm. To put that out there in a video or tv show for the world to see to feed your ego or your wallet is perverted. Sort of like watching someone take a dump.

My comfort zone is 400 yards or less and then only if I have a good rest and conditions are perfect. I haven't lost an animal in many, many years. We have a tough group of hunters and some decent land to deer hunt on. Over the years we have booted several out of the group for being stupid. You wound an animal (regardless of range) and we have to spend half the night looking for it believe me you will catch hell. Do it a few more times and you are asked to hunt somewhere else. It's the way it is.

 

[Wolfdog91]

Eveyone keeps bringing up 1000yd shots but is that really what most long range guys really even shoot ? Guess alot of the wanna be's like to talk about 1000yd shots but seems most of the guys I talk to through PM's and the like generally keep it under 600yd. And they don't shoot past what they know that can do. I know one guy in perticular can't remember his name to save my life right now , said basically if you can't keep on a MOA target absolute minimum consistently you shouldn't be making shots like that.

Honestly I think that's good advice. I've been at the range with people who can't hit a can of mountain dew @100 and argue me down that I had to have missed because it's impossible to shoot five rounds in the same hole. Would have to say I think it would be unethical for them to make shots past 50 honestly. Especially when the same people come back the next day talking about how they gut shot a deer after they left the range with their good enough for the woods group and skills. I'd be terrified if someone like that bought a custom rifle with their mind set and decided to shoot past 200yd.

Personally I've never shot past 400yd because that honestly as long as it gets here. For me that's long range. I think for alot of folks here that's a joke that would be a ethical shot with there skill sets and equipment. But for me , egh I need alot more practice till then.

Honestly don't think there's any right or wrong to it just boils down to a persons ability and knowledge of what all their doing. Definitely don't think its something for most people.

 

[Gary in MD]

I dont post there too often because of the ethics ban. I dont need to be told what I can or cant say. Ethics are certainly involved. Banning the discussion reminds me of the left.

That place is full of Fudds. There was a guy on there looking for help trying to figure out what was the best bullet for his 270 Winchester, it was going to be his “700 yard coyote rifle”. He knew he and the rifle were capable, even though he described the rifle as a “factory barrel with a burr in the chamber and poorly bedded stock”.
But the “right bullet or powder” was going to make it happen…..