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Krieger Barrels

gsxr1k

Does anyone have any experience with Krieger rimfire barrels? I've had great luck with their centerfire barrels but don't know anyone who has used their rimfire barrels. Thank you.
 
USMCDOC said:
and you know.. he used Hearts for a long time too
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Maybe Hearts "used" to be better I have no idea. Apparently, they aren't now, or at least not in Mr. Nevius's opinion, since I imagine he can use anything he wants. I have and have had Krieger CF barrels and liked them just fine. I have no idea what the RF barrels are like, but assume them to be good. My only point was to bring it to the OP's attention that I remembered reading one of the more accomplished shooters around, mentioning he used them - not a commercial for Krieger at all.
 
I've used Krieger 22RF blanks on several of my custom repeaters (Stiller 2500XR, Rem 40XB, three Vudoos) and every single one of them has been a very good shooter. If it hadn't been so easy to get Shilen ratchet blanks a few years ago, I'd have probably stayed with using Kriegers on the Vudoo single shots also.
 
Hi everyone - I thought I would chime in because my name was mentioned LOL

I have been shooting for over 30 years, and have used a lot of barrels from almost all of the named manufacturers. All (at one time or another) have put out some great ones, but as we all know its just the luck of the draw finding something really special. It seems that some have streaks where they put out some great barrels (speculating, maybe its just a great batch of uniform steel blanks, or sometimes really talented employees will switch companies - people who know how to lap barrels seem to be rare and in high demand).

I used a lot of Hart Barrels early in my career, they were simply exceptional. They may still be, and I can't really remember why I stopped. Like most everyone else, you keep your eyes and ears open - and watch who is winning and with what equipment and adjust accordingly.

The first National I won was with an exceptional Hart. It was and probably still is the best barrel I have ever had. I had no idea what I had (that barrel digested everything well, especially at 100 yards), and when it started to decline I really struggled to find anything to replace it.

The next two were won with a very special Krieger, and a single lot of Midas that I stretched as far as I could. After that lot was expended, I could not find a replacement in that barrel. Like the Hart, it shot everything well - just not competitively enough to win the big matches / Nationals.

Last year I won with a 3 groove Benchmark, which with some 20 speed Midas is incredible. I don't have enough mileage on it yet to know for certain, but it may be the best yet. I recently tested some 25 speed XACT in it, and in a preliminary test (using the same sweet spots) it continues to shine. Really looking forward to this season.

If you asked me right now (base on my own experience and what I see on equipment lists), Shilen is a solid choice but Benchmark is my personal favorite, Kriegers are spectacular barrels - even though they are panned by the BR community for what I can see as no good reason (a myth perpetuated by many who have never tried one IMHO).

Regarding chambers, my first National was won with Tennex in a 2 degree leade chamber, and all the rest were won with Lapua in my own chamber (1.5 degree, set up @ .078", approx. .035" engraving with a .043" headspace).

Sorry to ramble on, have a great 2022 shooting season all!!

kev
 
Kevin, Your post relating your personal experiences is hardly 'rambling on' - it's just the sort of information many 22RF shooters are looking for. Though I've chambered quite a few CF barrels for myself & customers since 2005, I've only been doing my own 22RF barrel work since 2016, and that should tell you how much I appreciate solid information such as what you just posted.

I used those Kriegers I mentioned on my initial rifle builds mostly due to similar information I received from German Salazar, whose i opinion I asked for several years before I finally built the 2500XR as a deluxe 22RF repeater trainer. Though he was very impressed with a Krieger he'd had done, he was also quite impressed with a couple of Hart bbls he'd had fitted & chambered. The jist of what I'm hearing from top-level shooters like yourself is that 22RF barrels are like 6mm benchrest barrels in that every once in awhile, you find a 'hummer' barrel.

But the amount of ammunition testing it takes to exploit the potential of such a barrel is kind of mind-boggling to me, given the difficulty of being able to find enough match grade ammo to lot test on an individual basis in today's market. The amount of information that's available on the internet and the speed with which it's disseminated seems to make a huge impact on the demand for barrels & ammunition. Between that and the large numbers of new, well-heeled shooters who are willing & able to spend what it takes to buy a high-quality custom-barreled rifle and the ammunition for it, it's put a lot of pressure on ammunition manufacturers to keep up with the demand, and it makes me wonder if they'll ever be able to produce enough so that guys like myself can go back to being able to call dealers like Champions Choice, Good Shooting, Grafs, etc. and get enough lot samples to test - and then buy in quantity if & when we do find an exceptional lot. Hardly seems possible that those days will ever return...
 
I believe the 22 ammo shortage is really being driven by the prs, nrl, field matches that have become hugely popular. I got bit hard! Just shot one in Raton this weekend, targets out to 400! Another match this Saturday, Typically 200 rounds a weekend. That coupled by the likes of Vudoo, RimX, and all the other manufacturers building Rimfires that cater to that new crowd. What's not to like, no reloading, no significant barrel wear.
 
flatlander said:
Kevin, Your post relating your personal experiences is hardly 'rambling on' - it's just the sort of information many 22RF shooters are looking for. Though I've chambered quite a few CF barrels for myself & customers since 2005, I've only been doing my own 22RF barrel work since 2016, and that should tell you how much I appreciate solid information such as what you just posted.

I used those Kriegers I mentioned on my initial rifle builds mostly due to similar information I received from German Salazar, whose i opinion I asked for several years before I finally built the 2500XR as a deluxe 22RF repeater trainer. Though he was very impressed with a Krieger he'd had done, he was also quite impressed with a couple of Hart bbls he'd had fitted & chambered. The jist of what I'm hearing from top-level shooters like yourself is that 22RF barrels are like 6mm benchrest barrels in that every once in awhile, you find a 'hummer' barrel.

But the amount of ammunition testing it takes to exploit the potential of such a barrel is kind of mind-boggling to me, given the difficulty of being able to find enough match grade ammo to lot test on an individual basis in today's market. The amount of information that's available on the internet and the speed with which it's disseminated seems to make a huge impact on the demand for barrels & ammunition. Between that and the large numbers of new, well-heeled shooters who are willing & able to spend what it takes to buy a high-quality custom-barreled rifle and the ammunition for it, it's put a lot of pressure on ammunition manufacturers to keep up with the demand, and it makes me wonder if they'll ever be able to produce enough so that guys like myself can go back to being able to call dealers like Champions Choice, Good Shooting, Grafs, etc. and get enough lot samples to test - and then buy in quantity if & when we do find an exceptional lot. Hardly seems possible that those days will ever return...
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Thanks for the reply:

Your comments are spot on - well spoken and I couldn't agree more.

So years ago, I changed my approach (mostly because I started to do my own smithing). I keep many barrels - and all of the previous testing data - for every action I use. I have three rifles, one primary and two backups - and continue to test and develop the backups (leaving the primary for competitions). If one of the backups performs better than the primary, I switch them out. and continue the process. It avoids running out of a lot of ammunition (or having a barrel issue) mid season - leaving you going to the Nationals or some other big match with no confidence. It's a lot of work, but that's what an OCD personality with get you!! LOL

For years (when I was competing in the marketplace for ammo) I would buy a lot simply for quantity. Once I received it, I would rotate it through all of the barrels I had for each action hoping to find something competitive. It's kind of the opposite approach to ammunition hunting, but keeping a dozen barrels or more for each action is not such a wild idea anymore given the cost of a case of ammunition!

Great points though, wishing you a great 2022 season,

kev
 
I'm Hacking this thread! LOL. Has anybody besides John Whidden used Bartlein rimfire Barrels?
They will make me a 26" Carbon fiber wrapped barrel for a Vudoo. I shoot F-Class Smallbore.
 
If this has already been addressed my apologies as I didn't completely read through all posts but I've always been curious about something. It seems the CF world is dominated by single point cut rifling barrels but in the RF world there seems to be a lot more button rifled barrels and they tend to be the preferred choice. Why is that??

10XSHOOTER, just curious but on a competition gun why would you take the risk with a CF wrapped barrel?
 
I slug a lot of rimfire barrels and here is what I have seen. The top button rifled barrel makers all lap a tad bit of taper into their bores. this is by design. I wont go as far to say that it is necessary though, Here is why i say this. A really good shooting cut rifled blank seems to be perfectly true from one end to the other. no choke! Unfortunately not all cut rifled barrels are perfect from one end the the other, meaning no loose or tight spots. Perfect cut rifled and taper lapped button rifled barrels both can protentionaly shoot lights out. Im convinced what you dont want to have is any loose spots, especially at the muzzle.
So a couple tenths of choke or complete perfection from one end to the other both produce. A good chamber is a must and the proper ammo is a must. all very important and thus why rimfire rifles can drive the weak minded to drinking. LOL
Lapua is the only game in town right now from what im seeing and hearing Lapua ammo requires a 1.5 degree lead like mentioned above. I personally like a bit more jam on my bullet. closer to .060
 
skeetlee said:
I slug a lot of rimfire barrels and here is what I have seen. The top button rifled barrel makers all lap a tad bit of taper into their bores. this is by design. I wont go as far to say that it is necessary though, Here is why i say this. A really good shooting cut rifled blank seems to be perfectly true from one end to the other. no choke! Unfortunately not all cut rifled barrels are perfect from one end the the other, meaning no loose or tight spots. Perfect cut rifled and taper lapped button rifled barrels both can protentionaly shoot lights out. Im convinced what you dont want to have is any loose spots, especially at the muzzle.
So a couple tenths of choke or complete perfection from one end to the other both produce. A good chamber is a must and the proper ammo is a must. all very important and thus why rimfire rifles can drive the weak minded to drinking. LOL
Lapua is the only game in town right now from what im seeing and hearing Lapua ammo requires a 1.5 degree lead like mentioned above. I personally like a bit more jam on my bullet. closer to .060
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If you say it's best to have no loose spots at the muzzle, why are most barrel makers turning the muzzle smaller and threading when that just loosens things up. I would think it would be better to leave it full size with a good crown. Do you chamber with your own reamer cut to your speciflcations?
 
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