Keepin' the F Man Down

[Killick]

This was just posted on my clubs forum. It was contained in the 2015 Mid-Range Prone Approved match bulletin which listed match dates etc.
"F Class - You're welcome to participate with F-class rifles and equipment. F-class scores will not be used to determine match winner. F-class scores will be submitted to the NRA and will be used for classification separately under the NRA's statistic guidelines. F-Class competitors will shoot on the correct NRA F-Class target for all distances."
Are there other ranges that treat F-Classers like trash? Is this allowable at an Approved match? I realize that Approved is more lax compared to Registered but this just seems callous at best and petulant at worst. The match director is notorious for a lack of spinal fortitude and is easily swayed by a brow beating sling shooter. The consequence is that F-Class shooters avoid this match like a rotting corpse. It gripes my a$$ because it's my home range and due to physical conditions can no longer shoot from a sling for a whole match. I'm thinking of lobbying for an annual slot to host an F-Class Regional. If I can get that going it might turn the tables and create a demand to allow an equal footing for F-ers.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

I'd tell them to go to hell!! If the match director keeps that up. I think he will be out of a job. Hopefully very soon!!!

 

[abishai]

I thought that all the sling shooters died . At my club it is hard to find people that can still shoot off the ground . We have to let a lot of our marksmen shoot off a bench ....... We call it O - F class ( old fart class )

 

[watercam]

But no need! There is now F-Bench!
Sorry, being a sling shooter I have not kept up with all the rule changes. I thought that the F-TR and Open group had their own category and their own match winner. Meaning that there were effectively more than one.
For what it is worth I think F-Class is saving the sport in many places. I see more new faces at matches using rifles with supports under the forearm than slings these days. Not saying I am giving it up but one day I, too, may be forced to.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

But no need! There is now F-Bench!
Sorry, being a sling shooter I have not kept up with all the rule changes. I thought that the F-TR and Open group had their own category and their own match winner. Meaning that there were effectively more than one.
For what it is worth I think F-Class is saving the sport in many places. I see more new faces at matches using rifles with supports under the forearm than slings these days. Not saying I am giving it up but one day I, too, may be forced to.

Come on MTM, Come to the dark side!!! lol I have a lot of respect for sling shooters. It's a lot easier and cooler to shoot F- Class here in Arizona than sling. Especially when it warms up!!!!!

 

[wolley]

Sounds to me like he just needs to establish a separate awards group. Shouldn't be hard to talk him into.

 

[Immike]

When our High Power sling shooters first started allowing Fclass to join them on (their) line at their matches we didn't receive any recognition basically due to that they didn't have any knowledge or interest in it. I would bring along 1st place medals for the Fclass guys and everything worked out fine. After a few years they started catching on and started providing certificates to the winners. Patients and taking care of missing pieces brought our two groups together and we have a good cooperation now.

 

[clowdis]

Killick,
Are you complaining because you have to shoot with sling shooters on the same program or because there are no awards?

 

[FatBoy]

It's because you live in Kalifornia and everyone knows those sniper rifles you shoot are dangerous... Sinner.

Seriously, excluding f class from match win isn't uncommon if the match is a championship but there should at the very least be recognition for the high FO and FTR shooter. In TN we run separate (same COF different ranges) mid and long range championships for both prone and F class and have recognized F class state champions and have since 2003.

For club/approved matches I don't know why the MD would go out of his way to antagonize F'ers.

I agree with what was said before, f class is the tool that will save long range shooting. I wish more of the younger guys coming up would transition over to a sling and coat, but at long as they keep coming out.....

 

[TonyR]

I have heard variations of this story since I started shooting F-Class but I haven't seen any of this, except in jest, at my home club. I think it has to do with the work the F-ers have stepped up to do running the matches and helping out around the club. Like most clubs, a small group of sling shooters have been carrying the load for many years and greatly appreciate any help they can get. At our club, F-ers run the line, arrange for target pullers, show up on work days, and handle the registration and stats for prone matches. I asked our top HP guy about this recently and he said he classifies shooters as "givers" and "takers" and, in his mind, our F-ers are 'givers" and treated accordingly.

 

[Rtheurer]

"Givers and Takers" You can say that again.... Truer words have not been spoken. It would be a breathe of fresh air around my area to see a F class shooter to help with the one hundred things that need to be done before during and after a match is held.
I have said this over and over that if F class shooting was not allowed we as prone shooters would have be gone or slipping to the point of going away. So WELCOME F class shooters. Glad to have you. Your welcome on my line any time.

Why is it the guys who help the least always are the first to complain? If you want Equality... get your ass out there and help on fixing targets setting up, doing paper work, mowing lawn, coordinating food and equipment, donate your personal time and personal money like the guys who run the matches. Are you the VICTIM like we see on TV every day? Are you THAT guy? Best way to make this work is to shut your pie hole and start running matches and helping out. Harsh words... Yes. Tue.. also yes.

Russ T

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I am so pleased at the tenor of the various answers and posts on this thread. When I saw the OP last night, I had visions of torrents of opprobrium, venom and general nastiness being directed at the match director mentioned in the OP, followed by all manners of suggestions for confrontations short of belt-fed weapons.

So the match director at that mythical range has agreed to allow F-class shooters to shoot alongside the sling shooters on their very own F-class targets and he will be sending in the scores to the NRA. I don’t understand the issue here. The F-class shooters are not being treated like trash; they are being welcomed and treated properly.

Is the fact the match director will not give them a juice box at the end of the match the big issue? Give me a break. You should be happy that there is a place near you that has F-Class matches and will turn in the scores for classification and records and so on.

I was impressed with Wes’s, Tony’s and Mike’s answers. They show wisdom beyond their years. You will get a lot more success helping out rather than confronting the MD. At our club, the slingers have their awards, the F-openers have theirs and the F-trashers have theirs. When we have Service Rifle folks, they get their own awards.

I was the first one at our club shooting F-TR and I was always lumped in with the F-Open guys. I just contributed to their awards for a couple of years and then as more F-TR shooters showed up, we got our own division and played along with everyone else.

There is no need to be angry or sad about your situation, just make sure other F-class (or any other) shooters come out and compete, follow the rules and enjoy yourself. And see if there’s anything you can do to help.

A match director wants to grow his group of shooters but he will also take care of his long time shooters and make sure to not alienate them; they’ve been coming to shoot for a long time and they make up the bulk of the match. New shooters are welcome, but if they want to upset the applecart, that’s not going to go well. When the newcomers return again and again they gain recognition and soon become a fixture and are accepted. Don’t form a clique, mingle with everyone.

 

[Medic505]

Very good replies. I wish I had a range I could call a home range. I'm 4 hours to the closest that has regular matches and it is limited to 600. Dang Killick, you should feel lucky. Get off your butt and pitch in.

 

[Steve Blair]

Killick, [br]
Where is your home range? We've had some past problems at Camp Pendleton but that seems to be mostly gone. Santa Margarita Gun Club has not yet posted the 2015 schedule but we would certainly welcome you to our matches, both MR and LR. [br]
http://www.smgunclub.org/

 

[vervi1jw]

Well said OP. At the ranges I go to awards (cash) are given as long as at least 3 competitors are in each class. Not that attendance is low but the range can only host around 50 shooters, so if a ton of say service rifle shooters show up early, things get limited. I have never had your issues specifically, but I once was told that f-open would not be scored or have scores submitted to NRA because the matches were ftr only at this particular. We were allowed to shoot but only after paying the 50 dollar match fee. Needless to say I was a bit confused. They quickly changed that policy though.

 

[Killick]

Killick,
Are you complaining because you have to shoot with sling shooters on the same program or because there are no awards?

clowdis, I was and still may sling shoot if my condition improves. I consider all shooters on the line to be my friend. The MD is generally considered to be a douche and his attitude toward F-ers, to be generous, is indifferent. He is himself only a desultory competitor, only seldom shooting and usually dnf-ing because it's his rifle or it's his ammo. He has actually tried shooting F Open and with his usual
half-heartedness can't seem to get above Expert.
I don't shoot for the awards, I compete to win. The lack of recognition has a damping effect on shooter attendance and drives F-ers to other venues or just not shoot F. I would love to compete head to head with other F-ers but will now have to travel to some other range besides my home range. It just seems a shame.

 

[Killick]

Very good replies. I wish I had a range I could call a home range. I'm 4 hours to the closest that has regular matches and it is limited to 600. Dang Killick, you should feel lucky. Get off your butt and pitch in.

Medic, I do pitch in, I run 2 seperate matches by myself.

 

[Mudcat]

Well, your MD might be a "douche" but at least he has stepped up and ran some matches. Thats a lot more than we can say about a lot of folks. Hate to say it, but most folks are willing to accept help if its offered, but the last thing most folks want to here is bitching, whining and complaining when they are doing all the work to put on the "bitchfest".

Hopefully his attitude will adjust after he gets a little CONSTRUCTIVE help, assistance and critique.

 

[suberjc]

Very good replies. I wish I had a range I could call a home range. I'm 4 hours to the closest that has regular matches and it is limited to 600. Dang Killick, you should feel lucky. Get off your butt and pitch in.

Medic, I do pitch in, I run 2 seperate matches by myself.

Just so you won't think your behind is out there flapping in the breeze Killick, I doubt if there are many F-Class shooters who've been shooting for any length of time who don't know exactly what you are talking about. I don't remember where you said you were but if you can or want to attend an F-Class match designed for F-Class and Prone shooters, come to Palo Alto in Donaldsonville, I know that Rick would be glad to have you. Their matches are slick, well run, fun and friendly. They got some of the funniest guys you ever met. If you shoot a 7 it'll probably be because you're laughing.

 

[suberjc]

Well, your MD might be a "douche" but at least he has stepped up and ran some matches. Thats a lot more than we can say about a lot of folks. Hate to say it, but most folks are willing to accept help if its offered, but the last thing most folks want to here is bitching, whining and complaining when they are doing all the work to put on the "bitchfest".

Hopefully his attitude will adjust after he gets a little CONSTRUCTIVE help, assistance and critique.

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