K&m Arbor press seating force Range

[paulT]

I am seating my match bullets for FTR loads with a k&m arbor press with a standard force pack and Inline wilson micro seater
My seating pressure starts at 18 and ends at 26 on the gauge my brass is annealed and has been neck turned
Question what seating force spread do other ftr shooters obtain and is there a proven seating force sweet spot for .308 palma brass for ftr, Thanks.

 

[Dub]

You are in a good place with that range. Some of my loads prefer a bit more force

 

[paulT]

You are in a good place with that range. Some of my loads prefer a bit more force

Thanks for reply could you share your increased force range and observations why the increased neck tension
Yields optimum results verses the lighter neck tension loads.

 

[Dub]

I am shooting Berger 200.2 hybrids over 43 gr of Varget in my 308 with a 32” barrel. 30-35 lbs on my force pack is my sweet spot. The 185 Juggs prefer less. More in your range. Can’t tell you why. Just my experience

 

[paulT]

I am shooting Berger 200.2 hybrids over 43 gr of Varget in my 308 with a 32” barrel. 30-35 lbs on my force pack is my sweet spot. The 185 Juggs prefer less. More in your range. Can’t tell you why. Just my experience

Thanks for sharing info
I am shooting 185g hybrids.

 

[savageshooter86]

That tool is to help you see consistency in your loading practices. There’s not a range that’s gonna shoot well. Your set up and loading techniques will result in deferent number on gauge. You’re concerned about getting them all the same. And the seating “force” isn’t something you can just change while seating bullets. You would have to change something earlier in loading routine to get higher readings or lower ones.

 

[paulT]

That tool is to help you see consistency in your loading practices. There’s not a range that’s gonna shoot well. Your set up and loading techniques will result in deferent number on gauge. You’re concerned about getting them all the same. And the seating “force” isn’t something you can just change while seating bullets. You would have to change something earlier in loading routine to get higher readings or lower ones.

I agree that differences with neck tension and other sizing practises will exibit different seating force reading Ranges i was more interested in the total psi range of seating process to see if low overall seating band of say 8 to 10 psi was more benifical than say 10 to 15 psi wide range.

 

[Dub]

That tool is to help you see consistency in your loading practices. There’s not a range that’s gonna shoot well. Your set up and loading techniques will result in deferent number on gauge. You’re concerned about getting them all the same. And the seating “force” isn’t something you can just change while seating bullets. You would have to change something earlier in loading routine to get higher readings or lower ones.

true. such as bushing or mandrel or how clean the neck is. new vs fired brass, etc all make a difference in this number.

 

[savageshooter86]

I agree that differences with neck tension and other sizing practises will exibit different seating force reading Ranges i was more interested in the total psi range of seating process to see if low overall seating band of say 8 to 10 psi was more benifical than say 10 to 15 psi wide range.

Well I myself want the lowest spread in the reading on the tool when I seat and round after round being in that same window or reading

 

[Dave M.]

I am seating my match bullets for FTR loads with a k&m arbor press with a standard force pack and Inline wilson micro seater
My seating pressure starts at 18 and ends at 26 on the gauge my brass is annealed and has been neck turned
Question what seating force spread do other ftr shooters obtain and is there a proven seating force sweet spot for .308 palma brass for ftr, Thanks.

Try more neck tension and readings in the 45-55# range. I guarantee you will be surprised.
dave

 

[OMW57]

I have found for MY loads, running the brass through the press with an expander die & mandrel, my seating pressures have become more consistant, the pressure numbers vary by cartridge

 

[paulT]

Try more neck tension and readings in the 45-55# range. I guarantee you will be surprised.
dave

Hello Dave Guessing 45-55 range equates to @3.5 to 4 thousands of Neck tension
Is this psi Range you seat 185g hybrids for Longrange FTR Also what is loaded roud runnout with quoted psi seating force.

 

[Dave M.]

Hello Dave Guessing 45-55 range equates to @3.5 to 4 thousands of Neck tension
Is this psi Range you seat 185g hybrids for Longrange FTR Also what is loaded roud runnout with quoted psi seating force.

I’m seating 105g Berger VLD Targets for a 6 dasher and the 45-55lbf is between 3-3.5 thousandths neck tension. I anneal every firing and I do not use any graphite lube in the necks.
dave

 

[Stang66]

Has anyone used a digital indicator with an output cable to log data to a spreadsheet on your computer?
If so what program do you use?
Am I just over thinking all of this?
Goal is to have a way to track seating pressure results down range.
Thanks

 

[dgeesaman]

Do you mean like the AMP seater?

 

[RegionRat]

Has anyone used a digital indicator with an output cable to log data to a spreadsheet on your computer?
If so what program do you use?
Am I just over thinking all of this?
Goal is to have a way to track seating pressure results down range.
Thanks

In industrial labs, the rigs are typically using LabView which is a data acquisition system and the output can be shown using a number of programs including ones like MATLAB and Excel. Turnkey systems like MTS or Instron have their own control and plotting programs.

In a hobby setting, the AMP Press comes with software that controls the machine and does the data acquisition and plotting.

If you have this kind of interest in learning to control your sizing/seating and exploring the effects on the target, then it is your choice to invest in force gages for the arbor seating methods or up to the AMP Press. It is either something you do or you don't.

Shooting is cheaper if you don't chase down rabbit holes, and can be a very expensive pursuit if you let yourself get too curious.

What I tell newbies at the clubs is to make sure they have their kids fed, wives happy, bills paid, insurance and college funds paid up, then worry about the AMP Press.

Even then, if they won't be doing a lot of different guns and cartridges, it may be better to just buy my Scotch and let me run them than to own the system.... YMMV

 

[Chris Edmondson]

Has anyone used a digital indicator with an output cable to log data to a spreadsheet on your computer?
If so what program do you use?
Am I just over thinking all of this?
Goal is to have a way to track seating pressure results down range.
Thanks

I've done what you ask about, not terribly expensive using a load cell and a linear encoder to record force and distance, the computer takes care of time. After collecting lots of data and crunching it every which way from Sunday, I can't say with certainty that if I do this, I'll get that on the target. Or I see an affinity and group rounds together that way; the target will sometimes suck me into thinking I'm onto something, until she dumps me for another fool, lol.

As far as seating bullets goes, it has been instructive to see an excellent correlation between what I feel, and what I see on graph. It's also useful for spotting early donut cases and other outliers that may be worth setting aside for fouling, or discarding. And it is useful for fiddling with seating force, defined here as the effort (Work) required to seat bullets; it's a coarse tool, but it helped me converge on a nominal 0.261 ID for a .264 bullet for my rifle for example. There are other useful things like seeing the difference between annealed cases and those that aren't, lubed necks and not, etc.

The serious part is making sure the equipment is reliable and repeatable, the rest is fun .