Issues with 6XC

[JohnD]

After shooting my 6XC for about 140 rounds, I still cannot get it to group consistently.
I have have tried 2-3 powders, 5-6 bullets and many combinations of charges and
seating depth. I shoot mostly 3 shot groups and while some have been good < .250
the vast majority have been 2 in one hole/touching and 1 out by .250-.500. I'm
probably talking about 25-30 groups like this.
I'm thinking I may have concentricity issues with the brass but I don't have a
runout gauge so I don't really know. I would be indebted if someone could point
me in the right direction.

Thanks, John.

 

[watercam]

Bullets tried? Primers? Powders tried? Brass make? Turned necks or not? Die make and type? Rifle/barrel make and length? Vertical vs. horizontal dispersion? Atmospheric conditions (wind) on the days tested? Range tested?
There are a lot of variables in precision shooting.

 

[ShootDots]

This type of behavior is USUALLY indicative of a rifle not properly bedded. However, let's assume it IS bedded correctly. In that case I would look at your neck tension>>>do you feel varying amounts of "resistance" when you seat a bullet? If so there is usually 2 culprits behind that>> 1.) your brass needs annealing; or 2.) you REALLY need to turn your necks. If all of that is well, my next step would be to swap scopes with a different scope. If you are CONSISTENTLY getting "flyers" after 2 "in one hole" with every possible combination of loads, you may in fact be looking at a broken scope. Do you have a Leupold scope on your rig? I have found the "newer" Leupold scopes to be rather "fragile" and "loosen up" to a small degree, causing just such behavior. If all of that is not your "problem" you may have a barrel that still carries some "stress" in it and was inadvertently not PROPERLY stress relieved by it's manufacturer.. Outside of these issues, I can think of none else>>except the external forces of weather...

 

[JohnD]

Thanks Shootdots, Let me give you a rundown on what I've got:
Kreiger 1-8
Stiller action
Leupold scope about 5 years old
Second barrel on the gun and the first(different caliber) was so accurate it was spooky so I assume it was bedded properly.
Berger 88's and 105 Hybrids
95 and 107 SMK's
Hornady 87 V-max
H-4350, H-4831 and Varget
Tula and Federal LR Match primer
Norma brass unturned and once fired
Reamer has a .275 neck and loaded round is .2705. With a .268 bushing it sizes
it down to .266? I could tell when I seated my bullets it took an unusual amount
of force to do so. I put the expander back in the die and the necks come out closer
to .268. It actually shot a little better this weekend but I think I may need a .269
bushing and possibly a .270.
Most groups seem to have a vertical dispersion.

Thanks again and any other thoughts are welcome.

John

 

[ShootDots]

Hey John.... It is my opinion that you have too tight of a bushing. Go to .269.... Also, before you go and load up again, try annealing those cases. I will bet, a tidy sum at that, that if you do those 2 things, your bullets will seat "like butter"... RE-try the 107SMK's and try this little approach: Seat them 7-8K INTO the lands... If you do ALL three (3) of those "tricks" and it still does the same thing, I would bet another tidy sum it is your scope! I bought a Leupold 45X Target scope>>>as soon as it was delivered, I mounted it. I went to the range and once I got it CRYSTAL clear, there was a large amount of parallax. Once I got rid of the parallax, the scope was not crisp nor all that clear. I sent it back.. True to form, after 4 weeks I got the scope returned PERFECTED!! Now 6 months later, it started shooting in 2 different groups>> side by side about 2" apart. I sent it back with the targets attached. Once again, it came back "fixed".. Two (2) months later the exact same thing happened but vertically! I sent it back and VOILA it came back fixed! I sold it WITH TOTAL EXPLANATION OF IT'S HISTORY and never heard a peep back! Evidently they fixed it. I have sent several Leupolds back with similar problems over the years. Consequently, I use NightForce exclusively>>>never a problem! Having said, all that, let's hope it is NOT your scope and one of, if not all 3 of the aforementioned problems. Let me know how it goes... I appreciate it..

 

[GSPV]

Did it have the same scope on it when it shot so well with the previous barrel?

 

[WyleWD]

One other item to check would be to have a very meticulous gunsmith check the crown of your barrel. I've had several rifles over the years display what your are describing and a proper crown job was done and I was back in business. WD

 

[wboggs]

1+ on neck annealing.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Well,.....I am gonna admit how ignorant I am/was and throw out an idea. When I started doing my own barrel work my first project with a new blank was a 6mm Rem with a Shilen stainless blank. I didn't use my Brownell's Remington action wrench but another slide in the raceways type and smacked it a couple times with a deadblow hammer. Was told not to "overtighten" barrels. Well, that sucker would shoot 3 shot groups like you mention, no pattern, just 1 of the 3 shots out and other 2 touching or durn near touching. I was stroking out trying to correct it with different loads etc. Talked with a gunsmith friend and he says "sounds like an issue I had once, the barrel wasn't tight enough". So I pulled it out of the stock and sure enough it wasn't real tight after being shot some. Tightened the barrel and the groups tightened with NO fliers like I had previously. Also my 4th project, my 6XC came loose after about 150rds. Now I use a different wrench and technique and no more loose barrels. Just takes some of us longer to do it right!!!!!

Just saying perhaps you should check the new barrel for proper torque/tighteness! Sometimes brain farts overcome the best of us and even those down the ladder like me.lol

 

[GSPV]

Swap scopes with another rifle that is shooting well. Compare notes. You'd know that it is or isn't quickly.

 

[JohnD]

Same scope used with both barrels. If the barrel is more than hand tight how
would I know if it's loose? I had a rifle delivered once that had a loose barrel.
A 700 and the recoil lug would spin on the barrel. The Smith made it right though.

Thanks again guys

John