Issues re-sizing 223 brass for 20 Practical.

[Bachekermooni]

I have a 6 mm Grendel (AKA 6mm AR, 243 LBC, ...). Converting 6.5 Grendel brass was a breeze. Put in the right bushing in my Redding FL Type S and with one swing of the Forster press - presto 6mm Grendel brass.

But, 20 Practical has been a headache. Following the directions of the wiser ones, I first run my once-fired Hornady brass thru my Forster FL 223 die (stem removed). This sized the brass and squeezed the neck in some (in my Hornady press). I use a JP 223 Wilde chamber gauge to confirm proper sizing. I then used my Redding 223 neck sizing die with the 233 bushing (it has the Ruger 204 stem). Here in lies the problem. Out of the 30 cases I decided to prep, 4 would not fit in the chamber gauge any more (using my Forster press) 8-O Put those aside. I then used the 228 bushing in the same die, necked it down and used the sizing button - no issues. What happened in the middle step?

Your wisdom is greatly appreciated.

 

[TAJ45]

I am all ears on this one.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

You will need Redding 223 FL bushing die, I tried the same neck bushing die with the same result as you. The case has more support in the full length die, you will probably need to do the neck down in 2 steps a .233 or .232 bushing and then your final bushing( determined by neck wall thickness) especially with used brass.
For brass that is formed and already been shot in my 20p. I can universal decap, set the shoulder with a 223 Fl die and then use the neck sizing bushing die. I use a bushing to get the brass .003-4 under bullet diameter(id) and then use a mandrel. But you can use the expander if it gives you correct neck tension.

 

[Bachekermooni]

You will need Redding 223 FL bushing die, I tried the same neck bushing die with the same result as you. The case has more support in the full length die, you will probably need to do the neck down in 2 steps a .233 or .232 bushing and then your final bushing( determined by neck wall thickness) especially with used brass.
For brass that is formed and already been shot in my 20p. I can universal decap, set the shoulder with a 223 Fl die and then use the neck sizing bushing die. I use a bushing to get the brass .003-4 under bullet diameter(id) and then use a mandrel. But you can use the expander if it gives you correct neck tension.

Thanks. It was the intermediate step with the 233 bushing that caused the problem. I do have a Redding 223 FL type S die as well. I am looking for mandrels - hard to find. Which mfg do you recommend?

 

[Fast14riot]

I'm willing to bet the shoulder expanded when using the neck die. Intermediate step in a FL die should fix it.

 

[willyp19]

You will need Redding 223 FL bushing die, I tried the same neck bushing die with the same result as you. The case has more support in the full length die, you will probably need to do the neck down in 2 steps a .233 or .232 bushing and then your final bushing( determined by neck wall thickness) especially with used brass.
For brass that is formed and already been shot in my 20p. I can universal decap, set the shoulder with a 223 Fl die and then use the neck sizing bushing die. I use a bushing to get the brass .003-4 under bullet diameter(id) and then use a mandrel. But you can use the expander if it gives you correct neck tension.

This is the method I used, and I've sized over 1000 pieces of 223 to 20P. However, I did full length size all my 223 brass before I started the conversion to 20P. Also, I used this method for both new and once fired brass.

 

[Bachekermooni]

OK. Later I will send the "bad" ones thru the FL with proper bushing ... Stand by.

 

[sawcarver]

I just take 223 and run it through the 223 FL bushing die with the proper bushing for my 20 prac. No intermediate step. Works great

 

[Oso]

You mentioned using once-fired brass so you will need to do some case prep on the front-end to get your brass back to spec. First, FL resize the cases to get the case back to spec, decap primer, and remove any dents from neck/mouth. Annealing the brass is good practice to help it more easily form without split necks . Now your donor brass is ready (Neck O.D. is approximately .255").

I am using a Redding Type-S FL Bushing Dies (plunger & expander ball removed) for forming some different 20 cal cartridges out of 223 brass. WHat I have found for me is the following sequence of reduction steps.
1) Insert a .246"-.249" Bushing and run brass through FL Die (Neck O.D. is now .248"ish).
2) Insert a .236" - .238" Bushing and run cases through FL Die (Neck O.D. is now .236"-.238").
3) Insert the .227" - .229" Bushing (final sizing) and run through FL Sizing Die (Neck is now .227"-.229").
4) Expand the neck using Neck Expander Die with the 20 cal mandrel.... load it & shoot it.

The one extra intermediary bushing (step 2) doesn't take that much more time to complete. It's easier on the brass and avoids risk of doughnut. Since you are only resizing the neck and not a more complicated case forming process, you can probably get away with just using Hornady One Shot for lube.

 

[Woollybugger]

I use the redding small base Type S bushing die with the 204 decap/expander Size to 233 and the second time to 227. They work well. My barrel must be tight because if I don’t use the SB die cases may stick in my AR.

 

[Bachekermooni]

So, I tried re-sizing the bad ones, no luck. I tried my own new process with 10 once-fired and cleaned Hornady brass. Pushed them thru the Forster 223 FL with no stem in the Hornady press. Necks now down to .239-.240. Then pushed them thru the Redding FL with .228 bushing and 204 stem (Forster press). Perfect. All 10 worked great. They fit in the chamber gauge. Inside neck at the top is .2020 and middle .2015 - a little too tight for my taste.

I really want to try expander mandrel. But whose? Looking at PMA Tool. Any feedback?

 

[Bachekermooni]

The fired brass is from my Kimber, so no AR dents and they never hit the ground. Interestingly, the brass gets approx 0.010" longer after resizing.

My final question: what case OAL do you use? 1.750"?

 

[Woollybugger]

So, I tried re-sizing the bad ones, no luck. I tried my own new process with 10 once-fired and cleaned Hornady brass. Pushed them thru the Forster 223 FL with no stem in the Hornady press. Necks now down to .239-.240. Then pushed them thru the Redding FL with .228 bushing and 204 stem (Forster press). Perfect. All 10 worked great. They fit in the chamber gauge. Inside neck at the top is .2020 and middle .2015 - a little too tight for my taste.

I really want to try expander mandrel. But whose? Looking at PMA Tool. Any feedback?

If they are to tight (too much neck tension) could you try a 229 bushing? I have and with new WIn brass the tension was to light. LC brass might be fine.

 

[nakneker]

So, I tried re-sizing the bad ones, no luck. I tried my own new process with 10 once-fired and cleaned Hornady brass. Pushed them thru the Forster 223 FL with no stem in the Hornady press. Necks now down to .239-.240. Then pushed them thru the Redding FL with .228 bushing and 204 stem (Forster press). Perfect. All 10 worked great. They fit in the chamber gauge. Inside neck at the top is .2020 and middle .2015 - a little too tight for my taste.

I really want to try expander mandrel. But whose? Looking at PMA Tool. Any feedback?

I’m using 21st century mandrels but I don’t think they produce mandrels smaller than .221 or so. You can always use pin gauges, lots of videos on the those that show how.

 

[L.Sherm]

Try Porters Precision mandrels and die.

 

[Rick300]

Try Porters Precision mandrels and die.

+1

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I use Sinclair mandrels and die. I believe they have an expander(E) and a neck turning(T) for each caliber. The T is 0.201. The E expander is 1 thou under bullet diameter(my caliper measurements). You could all so use a pin gage in a collet bullet puller die, and have much more latitude for inside neck diameter and various brass thicknesses. The T mandrel works good for me, my 20p is an AR.

 

[JSH]

Tinkered with numerous wildcats using 223 as a parent case.
I found the web to have expanded enough on once fired brass to cause problems, and that little bit that the sizer can’t get causes problems.
Buddy had a push through die that he used with some success.

As I get older I find my time more valuable, I don’t want or need a project within another project. Lol, I can cause myself frustration at times with out adding to it.
Virgin brass eliminated 99.9% of my issues. What’s the old saying, cry once?
Buddy is waiting on a 20 Practical barrel. He is all gung ho on getting ammo loaded. I warned him and he knows better. Load up enough for a prairie dog hunt and it won’t chamber, that will make a man expand his vocabulary and invent new words and phrases.
Jeff

 

[redrockranger]

I lubricate the necks. 3 step neck bushings to get it down.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

For my BHW barrel, my 20p brass, I can check brass in the Lyman small rifle ammo checker block(223R). If it drops in flush to the second step it will go into battery AND extract. Then it's only a matter of getting neck diameter correct.