IS THE .204 RUGER A TIGHT GROUP SHOOTER????
- Thread starter sharps
- Start date
i have savage model 12 in 204 and it shoots 1/2 in at 100 yds all day. also i shot a 3 shot group at 400 yds that was a 1 1/2 inch group. also i have sent many hogs to hog heaven from 50 yds to my best of 510 yds. my buddy has a cooper that shoots ragged hole groups all day long if that means anything. i dont know where you are hearing that the 204 dont group that good, because i have never heard of one single person saying there 204 isn't shooting well ever. just my experience and opinion.
sharps: I'm sure there are many who will disagree with my comments, but they do reflect my experiences with the 204. Rifle in question is a recent re-barreled Sako L-46 with a Hart 1-12, Sako varmint contour, 24". Chamber cut with my Pacific reamer, .230 no-turn neck, zero freebore, chamber length 1.850" for the max case length of 1.840". Using new Hornady brass, Redding neck bushing die w/ .224" bushing, Forster micrometer seater. Am now at 336 rds. fired, and still searching for a consistantly accurate 5 shot group at 100 yd. Scope is a Leupold 6-18, and yes, am using wind flags. Sinclair windage top front rest, #14 rear bunny ear bag, concrete benches. Have tried most of the "accuracy" loads: Powders, H322, Varget, N133, N135, RL10, Benchmark. Seating .020" off, touching & .010" jam. Bullets: Sierra 32 Blitz,, best so far) 32 V-Max,poor), 35 Berger HP, so-so), 39 Sierra Blitz,, close to the 32 gr.). Of all the rounds I am loading, 222, 223, 22ppc, 22BR, 6ppc, 6BR, etc., the 204 has been the most difficult for me to work with--- but I'm stubborn, and will continue to work with it. Somewhere, there are a couple of "magic loads" that will work. Best 5 shot groups at 100 yd. are slightly under 1/2", worst are 1 1/2". Hope I'm able to find a good load,s) before the barrel is burned-out.
My 204 is a trued Rem 700 with a 1-11 Benchmark barrel. I tried 32 and 40 V-Max and got about .600 average for five shot groups. The 39gr Sierras and 40gr Bergers work the best in my gun, with the Bergers having the edge. I do not use wind flags and am FAR from a benchrest shooter. Benchmark has been the best powder for me in Nosler brass. It averages about .300 with .250 groups not uncommon. I found the sweet spot .3gr under slightly stiff bolt lift. Hope this helps.
P1ZombieKiller
Silver $$ Contributor
Funny you mention this, cause I'm in the process of load development on my Rem VLS 700 .204. I shoot 32 grn V-max in my CZ 527, but this gun HATED the 32 grain V-max. I was told that it would not shoot the heavy bullets so don't even try.... Glad I tried.... Cause with a little H335 and a 39 grain Sierra Blitzking, it's shooting much better. I am no bench shooter either.... I'm just a hunter that likes to shoot more than the average red neck. I'll be posting another thread here today asking about pressures and ES and SD on the chronograph with these loads.
Here are some of my groups I shot yesterday with the load info written on my test target,alone with chrono speed). Hope you can read them... if not, look for my new post titled "204 powder and pressures".
Here are some of my groups I shot yesterday with the load info written on my test target,alone with chrono speed). Hope you can read them... if not, look for my new post titled "204 powder and pressures".
Attachments
Another trip to the range early this morning, no wind), this time with H335 powder loads. I guess what I find most frustrating about the 204 is the complete lack of consistancy/ example: with 32 gr. Sierra, .643", 1.486", .928", .932. With 35 gr. Berger, 1.261", .536". With 39 gr. Sierra 1.119", .678". All 5 shot groups at 100 yd. With the other cartridges, mentioned above, my groups will be consistant sub MOA, with a varity of different loads, and to the point of being boring. My 222s' and 223s', even my AR-15s'), will "whup" the 204 each and every time-- not even close. Am considering using up the components, not buying any "new", and sometime in the future, near?), getting out of the 204 business. So far, has been a disappointment.
I'm new to the forum but here is my 2 cents worth. I own a complete DPMS AR-15 in .204 Ruger. I also bought a DPMS .204 upper and mounted it on my Bushmaster lower. Both uppers favor H4895, IMR4895, Varget, and Reloder 15 with a dislike for H322, BL-C, Benchmark and WW 748 powders. I get the best results with H4895 and IMR4895 with 32 gr. Sierra bullets and Reloder 15 with 40 gr V-maxs. Both uppers are capable of .50" to .63" five shot groups with an occasional dip into the .25"-.38" range. The complete DPMS AR will shoot its best groups with a max load of powder. The DPMS upper on my bushmaster starts to group over an inch if I get within 1 grain of max. With H322, BL-C, and Benchmark I can get 3 sometimes 4 shots within .5" with the 4th and/or 5th shot opening the group up to 1.25" to 1.75". All groups listed were shot under ideal conditions, with a solid bench and good rest.
Factory Savage VLP, bedded, RBII trigger at 7 ozs, forend stabilizer and 12X42 NightForce bolted on top.
40gn Bergers over N-135
Heres the kicker. That 5 shot group was fired at 200yds.
No it won't do this day in and day out even if I do my part.
On a good day it will agg in the high 2's at 100yds. Bad days,for me) with a good load will get me low 3's or even higher.
This is my third Sav factory barrel that will shoot like this.
Barrel #2 could not handle accuracy like this for extended shots without cleaning so it got bumped. Extremely shallow lands seems to be the culprit on that problem.
The 204 can be very finicky and cannot be force fed components it does not like.
I do not have my only NightForce bolted on top of my only factory gun by accident.
FWIW I do not recommend any Viht powders in a factory chambered 204 unless you really want to work hard at loading. I no longer use Viht myself.
40gn Bergers over N-135
Heres the kicker. That 5 shot group was fired at 200yds.
No it won't do this day in and day out even if I do my part.
On a good day it will agg in the high 2's at 100yds. Bad days,for me) with a good load will get me low 3's or even higher.
This is my third Sav factory barrel that will shoot like this.
Barrel #2 could not handle accuracy like this for extended shots without cleaning so it got bumped. Extremely shallow lands seems to be the culprit on that problem.
The 204 can be very finicky and cannot be force fed components it does not like.
I do not have my only NightForce bolted on top of my only factory gun by accident.
FWIW I do not recommend any Viht powders in a factory chambered 204 unless you really want to work hard at loading. I no longer use Viht myself.
My story: Rem. 700 LVSF in .204
Prior to break-in: glass bedded, replaced firing pin ass'y,had trigger lock), re-crowned, adjusted trigger
After break-in, shot occasional 3-shot 3/8" 100 yd. groups, always use flags) with both 32 gr. and 39/40 gr. bullets..........but 4th & 5th shot open to 2-1/2".....removed ejector spring....couple 3 shot grps at 1/4"....but still opens up BADLY. Tried keeping bbl. cool, different balance points of fore-end in front bag,unending load combinations, different scopes,added fore-end pressure.
Long story ...short.... it can be superbly accurate.....I just don't know when this accuracy will show-up. My experience with one rifle....FWIW
Prior to break-in: glass bedded, replaced firing pin ass'y,had trigger lock), re-crowned, adjusted trigger
After break-in, shot occasional 3-shot 3/8" 100 yd. groups, always use flags) with both 32 gr. and 39/40 gr. bullets..........but 4th & 5th shot open to 2-1/2".....removed ejector spring....couple 3 shot grps at 1/4"....but still opens up BADLY. Tried keeping bbl. cool, different balance points of fore-end in front bag,unending load combinations, different scopes,added fore-end pressure.
Long story ...short.... it can be superbly accurate.....I just don't know when this accuracy will show-up. My experience with one rifle....FWIW
LHSMITH
Your rifle sounds just like barrel #2 I alluded to in my post.
With a freshly scrubbed bore it would shoot bugholes at 200 yds.
Quite possibly the most accurate barrel I've ever had.
With naked pills after three shots it started flying. No severe copper to blame. It also was the smoothest new Savage tube I've yet seen.
Switched to WS2 coated pills and saw some imrovement. Usually could get a great 5 shot group at 200 sometimes as many as 8 rds touching before it would begin walking bullets across the target. After 10-13 it would turn totally wild. Heat was not the problem.
My thinking was the extremely shallow lands were simply fouling out. They looked more like the 22 micro grooves as opposed to the regular lands in my other tubes. Just my opinion and thoughts on it FWIW.
After 1000 rds or so accuracy was fading fast and I never could get it to shoot. Simply bought another and screwed it on. Gotta love that about Savages. Almost as easy as changing a light bulb.
Your rifle sounds just like barrel #2 I alluded to in my post.
With a freshly scrubbed bore it would shoot bugholes at 200 yds.
Quite possibly the most accurate barrel I've ever had.
With naked pills after three shots it started flying. No severe copper to blame. It also was the smoothest new Savage tube I've yet seen.
Switched to WS2 coated pills and saw some imrovement. Usually could get a great 5 shot group at 200 sometimes as many as 8 rds touching before it would begin walking bullets across the target. After 10-13 it would turn totally wild. Heat was not the problem.
My thinking was the extremely shallow lands were simply fouling out. They looked more like the 22 micro grooves as opposed to the regular lands in my other tubes. Just my opinion and thoughts on it FWIW.
After 1000 rds or so accuracy was fading fast and I never could get it to shoot. Simply bought another and screwed it on. Gotta love that about Savages. Almost as easy as changing a light bulb.
1911: Ditto on the lack of copper fouling.Being a part-time BR shooter,about 8 matches a year) I tried every cleaning regimen but to no avail.Had the bore scoped by smith and tube displays typical factory faults.,Didn't look into measuring depth of lands though). I am giving up on this chambering....any more $$$$ put into this rifle and I'll be near the investment on some of my custom BR rigs.
BTW my favorite BR rifle in the "most fun to shoot category" is a trued 700 Shilen HV bbl. in .222.....just wish I could grasp a better handle on condition reading....if that should ever happen it will be THE gun I take to the matches.
BTW my favorite BR rifle in the "most fun to shoot category" is a trued 700 Shilen HV bbl. in .222.....just wish I could grasp a better handle on condition reading....if that should ever happen it will be THE gun I take to the matches.
When the 204Ruger was introduced I couldn't see a need for one until I tried one shooting prairie dogs. The following year each of the seven in our group agreed the 204R kicked our .22 and 6mm rifles in the fields of South Dakota. I now have over a dozen .204R and 20BR rifles and find them to be very accurate and consistent. I've sold or rebarreled almost all of my .223, .223AI, 22-250, 22-250AI, 22BR ect. The advantage of the .204 is low recoil so you can watch your hits, barrel stays cool similar to a .223, shoots as flat as,or better) then the 22-250AI or 220 Swift that over heat the barrel,and wear) so quickly. I've found every factory bolt action 204 Ruger to be very accurate if, IF the barrel isn't fouled. Copper fouling can be an issue but the accuracy killer is the "carbon ring" that forms in front of the chamber neck and can actually "size down" the bullet as it is forced through the carbon ring. Once the ring has formed it is extremely hard to remove. I've found no liquid cleaner that will touch this hard carbon and while J B compound and Isso are great for preventing this ring with regular use, they can't be depended on to remove it from an abused barrel. If a .204Ruger won't shoot well with a 39gr Sierra BlizKing or 35 Berger, there is a problem with the rifle or scope, could be the usual things like bedding or crown. If those are okay I'd bet on the barrel being fouled. While Savages shoot very well or maybe with the best, I can say they also have the roughest barrels. A .204R or 20BR with a custom barrel is a real joy to shoot because it cleans so easy.............
Dimwit Flathead
It's the Juggernaut, Bitch!
I've had three 204 Rugers so far and not one has shot well enough to be reliable on woodchucks past 100 yards. I've tried Berger, Sierra and Hornady bullets over every powder you can think of. I've even had two bullet swaging dies made and am now sort of encouraged by a 45 gr. bullet I made, but it's still not to the point that I would try to use it on live varmints at long range. I think it's a fun little cartridge for those of us who like to reload; it'll definitely keep us searching for success. I'm sorry I invested money in the damn thing.
Onomrbil,
What brand/model are the three rifles won't shoot? My test load for anyone's 204R is 30gr BLC-2, 39gr SBK, Winchester brass and Federal primer. This isn't my best load,I like N-133 and 39gr SBK) but seems to be universally accurate, hence my test load. The orange box HSM factory ammo with 39gr Sierra BlitzKing will shoot .5" to .75" in bolt action rifles. My 204 with the worst accuracy is a Thompson Center but I don't expect bolt action accuracy out of a break open action.
What brand/model are the three rifles won't shoot? My test load for anyone's 204R is 30gr BLC-2, 39gr SBK, Winchester brass and Federal primer. This isn't my best load,I like N-133 and 39gr SBK) but seems to be universally accurate, hence my test load. The orange box HSM factory ammo with 39gr Sierra BlitzKing will shoot .5" to .75" in bolt action rifles. My 204 with the worst accuracy is a Thompson Center but I don't expect bolt action accuracy out of a break open action.
I have a ss thompson contender with a factory barrel in 204r with a huge chamber and long throat which i can hardly get within .050 of the lands and it will shoot 1/2 groups all day long. with 32 gr sierra blitzkings measurment to the ogive with the sinclair hex style comparator is 3.008 and 2.393 coal. 32 v-max is 3.008 w/comp 2.385 coal. i use either 29.8 gr. of blc-2 or 27 gr. of h322. it has close to 1000 rounds down the tube and i can shoot at least 60 rounds or more before cleaning and it cleans very easy with 5 or 6 patches. if the wind is not crazy 50 to 300 yards ground hogs are toast with longest one at 375. holding right on out to 225 yards and holding 3 inches high at 300. i ended up with 202 ground hogs in pa this year 98 last year and 108 the year before. lots of whistle pigs in pa. i also worked up a load for a factory xr-100 in 204 and it shot even tighter than the contender. the chamber and neck were alot tighter than the contender but still a long way to the lands. the load for this gun was coal 2.376 with 40 gr. v-max's and 26.7 gr.of imr 4895. i'll try to post some pics soon. also building a 300 wsm varminter with stiller predator action and bartlein barrel.
I have a savage 12fv. It is an easy 1/2 MOA gun, and most of the time it will give me all holes touching and quite a number of one holers. I have been using 35 grain Bergers, Benchmark, Rem Brass, and BR-4 Primers, soon to try wolfs. I will not be without a .204 after finally trying one. Shoots flat and hits hard. Won a 300 yard informal shoot with it beating 20 shooters, a couple of 6mmbr's.
I too had a Remmy LVSF 204. The rifle flat out wouldn't shoot and Remmy didn't want to hear about it. A Lilja was ordered and everything shipped to Clay Spencer. Clay did everything possible to enhance it's accuracy. This rifle now shoots 35 Bergers into the .2's and .3's. Facory ammo now shoots solid half inch groups. The Lilja broke in after ten rounds and does not copper foul at all.
The 204 is incredible.
The 204 is incredible.
I have owned several 204 Remmy factory rifles, the most recent being an SPS varmint. I have been shooting the cartridge exclusively at gophers and coyotes for years and I have learned alot about these combinations.
First of all, the cartridge is deadly. I made my longest coyote kill at 425 meters and i just took the top of a coyote's head off at 325 meters using a 32 grain vmax.
I have crunched the numbers and I feel the factory twists are way too slow for the 40-50 grain bullets; they seem to be better for 32 grains, but I'd like to see much tighter factory twist rates.
The accuracy is genrally good, but fouling is a problem and I attribute this to the Ukranian tractor factories that make Remington barrels. I have also concluded that the accurate barrel life of a 204 is a scant 1200-1500 rounds.,For me, that is maybe 5-6 days worth holidays devoted strictly to gopher shooting in May!) I have taken to simply buying a new rifle since the cost of a re-barrel for me is greater than a new gun, and the accuracy of the factory guns is certainly good enough for varmint hunting. The old actions are reincarnated into something more refined.
I was curious to hear someone else discuss the powder ring and my cleaning regime includes GM carb cleaner which works quite well, followed by brake cleaner.
FYI, I was given a tip on how to re-load the brass easier... I acquired some of those disposable tips for a doctor's otoscope,The ear-looker-inner) that are like mini funnels. They are fantastic for getting powder into the tiny case mouths.
First of all, the cartridge is deadly. I made my longest coyote kill at 425 meters and i just took the top of a coyote's head off at 325 meters using a 32 grain vmax.
I have crunched the numbers and I feel the factory twists are way too slow for the 40-50 grain bullets; they seem to be better for 32 grains, but I'd like to see much tighter factory twist rates.
The accuracy is genrally good, but fouling is a problem and I attribute this to the Ukranian tractor factories that make Remington barrels. I have also concluded that the accurate barrel life of a 204 is a scant 1200-1500 rounds.,For me, that is maybe 5-6 days worth holidays devoted strictly to gopher shooting in May!) I have taken to simply buying a new rifle since the cost of a re-barrel for me is greater than a new gun, and the accuracy of the factory guns is certainly good enough for varmint hunting. The old actions are reincarnated into something more refined.
I was curious to hear someone else discuss the powder ring and my cleaning regime includes GM carb cleaner which works quite well, followed by brake cleaner.
FYI, I was given a tip on how to re-load the brass easier... I acquired some of those disposable tips for a doctor's otoscope,The ear-looker-inner) that are like mini funnels. They are fantastic for getting powder into the tiny case mouths.
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