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Is sharp and clear glass necessary?

Is sharp and clear really necessary and important criteria for a rifle scope? When there is mirage, a crisp image is impossible anyway. My scope doesn't have the sharpest glass going and it is sometimes out of focus when I set it for a parallax-free image (I have severe astigmatism). And, yet, it hasn't seemed to hurt my scores.

Same with a spotting scope. Do I need an expensive spotting scope with amazing glass to read mirage, especially when I'm focusing only half way to the target?
 
Among other advantages, money in optics gives you a better picture in low light. Take a cheap scope and a premium scope and look through them after sundown.
 
Among other advantages, money in optics gives you a better picture in low light. Take a cheap scope and a premium scope and look through them after sundown.
I don't shoot after sundown. I think that's the kind of "does it really mean anything" criteria I'm talking about, at least when it comes to target shooting.
 
What everyone said here is spot on and the guy with the better glass will always have an advantage in a perfect world. That being said your scope is just one tool you have on the line. I watch guys at national and regional matches win with $1,200 scopes against guys with $4,000 scopes more often that you think. It’s your money, your eyes, and your score. Get what works for you, that’s all that matters. It won’t be the same for everyone.
 
hogpatrol is right ...there is a difference with better glass but I also think you have answered your own question
as you mentioned that by using lower quality glass it has not effected your scores. I would stick with what your
using if you are happy with the results. I have a friend that shoots very well with a couple of scopes with lower
quality glass that I can't even see out of...LOL.:rolleyes::D. There are top quality scopes with fully multi coated lenses
that will look a tiny bit different between different makers to consider also.:)
 
Is sharp and clear really necessary and important criteria for a rifle scope? When there is mirage, a crisp image is impossible anyway. My scope doesn't have the sharpest glass going and it is sometimes out of focus when I set it for a parallax-free image (I have severe astigmatism). And, yet, it hasn't seemed to hurt my scores.

Same with a spotting scope. Do I need an expensive spotting scope with amazing glass to read mirage, especially when I'm focusing only half way to the target?
You don't need the most expensive glass, but you definitely need perfect mechanical components and perfect turrets tend to come with really good glass. But, there are several "reasonable" scopes with a great reputation for mechanical reliability/repeatability: Weaver, Sightron, Vortex GE, NF Benchrest come to mind.
 
What price range? You mean like 50 to 400 dollar quality vs 450 to 1000 dollar Quality? Or 1 to 2k vs etc...... I can for sure say that I’d rather have a low power 4x then a cheap 16 power if the glass was clear. I have bad eyes but I can certainly tell glass quality more then any thing. Having said that I do like higher magnification. If it can make 600 yards look like it’s in front of me that’s all I need.
 
My Two cents ?
I was at Match Two years ago , a Chinese Engineer said this . “ it is your eyes that tell the story on the glass “. Scott is correct if the the Scope does not repeat, it is of no value.

I am New to F/TR ? I have Two Vortex GE .
I shot at 600 the other day . The mirage had the circles on the Target all twisted.
How do shooters handle this .

Drove me nuts at times ?
 
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For a rifle scope crappy fuzzy glass will never get any better and on a bad day will only get worse. Why handicap yourself before you even fire a shot..

Spotting scopes for mirage a medium quality scope will do fine. For the most part your only looking for the direction and speed of fuzzy lines and boils anyways.
 
Cheap scopes have other problems besides glass. But when you get to the good scopes (not cheap, but not necessarily top end, Sightron is my benchmark for budget scopes), you'll spend double the money for the last 5% and as you suggest, it is not going to significantly affect your scores. It will be for enjoyable to look through the top scopes and I find myself gravitating always to my best scopes. But if the mechanics are 100%, the glass takes secondary importance wrt performance. It's a form vs function argument of sorts.
 
No, but neither is getting a pair of glasses just because your eye doctor says you have 20:100 vision.. I would suggest that you cannot hit anything you can't see clearly, or shoot groups that accurately reflect your rifle's accuracy potential.
 
It's all relative...nothing is written in stone. If you own a modestly-priced (~ $250-$300) 36X scope, I'm betting the glass quality of a Nightforce NXS 12-42x56 scope would absolutely blow it away to most people's eyes. But at the next level, the glass of a NF NXS 12-42x56 won't hold a candle to the quality of the glass in a NF Competition scope. Many such "relative" comparisons can be made amongst commonly available scopes in today's market. However, the better the features, typically the greater the cost; and at the highest end of the scale, extra bells and whistles will likely far exceed the cost of improvements/differences that distinguish low to medium-priced scopes.

The real question is where does the lower cutoff for "minimum acceptable" clarity fall? The answer is that it depends to some extent on the individuals eyes and preferences. Certainly, it is highly desirable to have some minimum level of glass quality such that you're not losing points that are directly attributable to poor glass quality. But past a certain point, the actual return on your investment will go south in a hurry. I would also point out that there are other scope features such as turret function/repeatability, and having a reticle you like that doesn't move once set, are likely to be equally important as the quality of the glass. It is generally a good idea to buy the best glass you can afford - a scope that meets some minimum level of performance and functionality such that it will not be the limiting factor in your game.

By analogy, it is also theoretically possible to "overscope" a given rifle setup. For example, you will probably not get the most for your money by putting a $3500+ March scope on top of a bone-stock low-end Remy 700 factory rifle. Once purchased, you will always have the scope, so your money won't be lost, and you can always sell a good scope or use it on a different rifle. But perhaps someone just starting out with a very modest rifle setup would be wiser to get a little more for their money by going with a slightly less expensive scope, and spending a little more on reloading equipment and supplies.

In the end, my suggestion is usually to buy the best you can afford, whatever that may be, with the following caveat: if the best you can afford at some given point in time will be a limiting factor, you're probably better off saving your money until you can afford to buy some better that won't be limiting. Money spent on a tool that doesn't meet the minimum acceptable criteria is money wasted.
 
I bought a $400 scope a couple months ago. I think it is amazing for the money. I also have several Sightrons and Nightforce scopes. I have access to an optical lab. They tested for resolution among other things. Resolution tested not so good. I compared this scope side by side with a scope that the resolution tested very high. At 100yds in bright sun "I" could not tell any difference in the brightness or clarity. The lab folks said the difference is at the edge of the image all the way around. Looking at the edges I still could not tell any difference. What I did not test or compare was at max zoom what the perceived magnification or closeness of the target was based on adjusting the eyepiece for reticle focus. That seems to be for me anyway where 24X is not 24X between different brand and price point of scopes. The other thing that is definitely most always different between price point scope is the clicks or adjustments feel. Cheap usually equals mushy.
 
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There's no doubt that when it comes to competitive shooting sports (especially what I have witnessed in F class alone), there is an additional INTERNAL competition to determine who brings the most expensive gear to a match. As far as optic glass quality, I have found a lesser expensive spotting scope, even a rifle scope, may not pick up on the most mild mirage that may begin to develop. I have seen individuals drop a point because they could not see that trickling mirage switch in their lesser expensive scope. You have to be able to see the conditions no matter how mild of profound in order to correct your read on the conditions. No matter how expensive the rifle may be (as long as it is doing its part), you should still invest in glass that will compliment your vision to give you the best advantage. Sometimes you may HAVE to shell out the green for it.
 
Its not so much a matter of what you see in your glass on a crappy day or when the mirage is ripping in the late afternoon, its the slightest changes that catch us. I've heard it many times, " what happened, I did not see any changes".
 
Several things to consider here.

As has been stated already, mechanical reliability and precision is critical in a riflescope. The clearest glass will not make up for a moving reticle or one that is not repeatable.

That aside, let's just consider the optics or glass aspect of a riflescope. As an F-class shooter, I spend a great deal of time looking through a riflescope and a spotting scope. Because of that, it is important to me, to have clear and distortion-free glass so as to reduce or eliminate eyestrain.

What I have observed over the years and an continuous improvement in riflescope quality is that when the mirage comes out to play with your view of the target, the better the glass, the less distortion I see. I believe there is a jump in mirage distortion abatement when there are ED glass elements in the scope. In my riflescope I look for the best, crispest image possible so as to be able to place the reticle on target, surgically, so make mine with ED glass and for my spotting scope, I want to be able to discern the mirage so I eschew ED glass in my spotting scope, but I still want high quality, non-ED glass in the spotting scope.
 
When I bean shooting, it was with a Weaver t36. I had no complaints other than wanting a bit more magnification and just to generally upgrade my equipment.
I chose a Nf BR 12-42 with the 2dd reticle. I still have it and it's been a wonderful scope for several years.
To be honest though, while I enjoyed the better glass, my scores didn't really improve but eye strain at the end of the day was better. I noticed it more on the drive home than at any time.
Glass has gotten better still. The Nf comps still have what I think is the best glass available in a br type scope. As has been said, absolute hold of poi is what matters by far the most in this sport. Better glass will always be just that. As long as it can suit your budget and is dependable, I see no downside to better optical performance. Just don't spend thousands more expecting better reticle performance. The old weavers and sightrons have proven to be about as good as any in that regard.
 
What about eye fatigue? My lesser scopes require me to strain more and at the end of a shooting session I can feel the difference.

The main downside to buying quality glass is it makes you hate everything in your safe that you thought was “good enough”
That's what I said in the post above yours. ;)
Again, I agree that's the biggest difference in a br scope and I noticed it most on the drive home. There are times, on bright, sunny days, that I still get home and feel like I've been welding all day, even with better glass. We don't "need" great glass but it sure is nice. Absolute reliability of holding poi is a must though.
 

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