Is my scope bad?

[Ohio Varmint Shooter]

I have a Mueller 8.5x25x44 AO scope on my Savage 223. Seems like every time I come back to the range, it shoots different...and worst of all, when I make an adjustment, it doesn't seem to work, and often going in the wrong direction. Here's an example below. (Hornady superformance 53 gr)

The first two shots are the bottom two (I'm going for 1-1.5 inches above POA @ 100 yards, so it will be on at 200 yards.) The scope has a 1/8 adjustment. I adjust the scope 6 clicks DOWN...and the the next three shots are TWO INCHES HIGHER???? (although a very nice group!) This is not the first time I've had this happen to me. I'm going to scan this page and send it to Meuller. I think the scope is bad. All mounts/rings have been inspected to make sure they're tight.

Any comments?

 

[Dogbone]

Just goin with the basics, are you sure you turning the elevation knob in the right direction? We all do silly things when distracted by perplexing problems. What happens with the windage? Perhaps the turrets were installed backwards?

 

[Larryh128]

Have you ever shot it with a different scope? Sounds like something that you may not want. Had the same issue more or less with a different brand. Took it out of the rings, checked alignment, Returned the scope to zero & it's been fine since. Go figure, still don't trust it though. About the only thing that will cause that is the scope tube being torqued.

 

[Ohio Varmint Shooter]

Just goin with the basics, are you sure you turning the elevation knob in the right direction? We all do silly things when distracted by perplexing problems. What happens with the windage? Perhaps the turrets were installed backwards?

Since this has happened several time, I've VERY aware of the UP and which direction the arrow is pointing on the adjuster. If it happened one time, yes, I would doubt myself. But this has happened too many times.

No, I have not tried it with a different scope. Is it possible I have the rings tightened too much?

 

[Lapua40X]

Faced with your situation, I'd start down at the foundation. Removing the scope, checking torque on all action screws and scope base, re-aligning and re-torquing scope rings and mounts. It could be a problem with the scope itself but I'd want to eliminate any other possibilities before making that determination.

 

[22BRGUY]

Not sure at all but I know most of my rifles shoot low after being cleaned for about the first 3 shots...could this be what is happening? Also, as the barrel heats up, many rifles start to climb the point of impact. I usually shoot 3 or 4 and then wait 3-5 minutes between shots to let the barrel cool down when target practicing.

 

[tenring]

Faced with your situation, I'd start down at the foundation. Removing the scope, checking torque on all action screws and scope base, re-aligning and re-torquing scope rings and mounts. It could be a problem with the scope itself but I'd want to eliminate any other possibilities before making that determination.

Do what he says. Then go out to the range, set up a target at 50 yards. If its a 1/4 minute click scope, 8 clicks will move it one inch in any direction. Put rifle in a good strudy rest and have a buddy move the adjustments 8 clicks at a time. Start at one corner of a 1" square target, go right, down, left, up and reticule should come back to starting corner. If your buddy is not available and you have very accurate loads, try a shot at each corner with same adjustments.

If it does not, send it back with aan explanatory letter.

 

[BigDMT]

Since this has happened several time, I've VERY aware of the UP and which direction the arrow is pointing on the adjuster. If it happened one time, yes, I would doubt myself. But this has happened too many times.

No, I have not tried it with a different scope. Is it possible I have the rings tightened too much?

That's exactly the direction I was going to send you. Definitely check that. Rings should never be more than about 15 lbs.
ALSO: Are your rings lapped? That can make a huge difference of it is tweaking the scope tube.

I've only had that issue happen to me ONE time when I tried some Warne rings. Had a Vortex Viper PST 6-24 on there. Same issues. It was definitely the rings. Bought my own scope ring lapping kit and smooth sailing ever since.


The fact that you stated "this has happened many times" makes me think it's NOT the scope. It's like my wife always says "If you keep having the same problem it's your own fault"

 

[Ohio Varmint Shooter]

I'm going to start from scratch, removing the scope, rings and mounts. I will be checking the mounting screws. (I remember checking the ring screws, but not the mounts.)

I don't know if it's time to buy a $100 lap kit yet. But I will pay attention to the tightening of the rings on the scope. Being the son of a GM engineer, I'll bet I have tendency for overtightened screws just a bit. (usually doesn't hurt on a car) Does anyone know: If I HAVE overtightened the ring screws, have I permanently damaged the scope? (I wouldn't think so)

I didn't think ring alignment was necessary on modern rings/mounts. They seem to be built 'idiot proof' as opposed to old style where you really did need to set alignment. And after a few minutes on the Google, I find out that there is the surface contact issue on the inside of the rings vs the scope tube.

....to be continued.....

 

[Edo]

This sounds like a parallax adjustment to me. Do you know how to check that it's adjusted correctly?

 

[BigDMT]

This sounds like a parallax adjustment to me. Do you know how to check that it's adjusted correctly?

good point. definitely ensure it adjusted correctly because it is a high magnification scope

 

[stinnett1981]

You didnt damage your scope by over tightening it. I recently bought a wheeler torque driver (amazon.com for 50 bux). I found out EVERY single scope on ALL my guns was over tightened! I re mounted all my bases, ring and scopes and they all work fine as they did before. The only way you damaged your scope is if you seriously tightened it like a cave man and the aluminum scope housing started caving in. Did you do that? If you dont have a torque driver then you need to bring that rifle to a gunsmith that has the proper tool for the job!

I had one scope act up on my before. It was a cheap BSA brand scope on a .22lr. The damb thing would never hold zero and didnt track. I gave it away for free to somebody on this site. I did tell him it was junk. Anyway, I never bought a cheap scope since and never had a scope problem since. I never heard of that brand of scope you are using. I can PROMISE you that spending more money on proven equipment is sooooooo much easier! You just never have issues when you buy high quality stuff!

Do you have another scope to put on that rifle??? If so, do it. That will tell everything you need to know. Good luck man! Dealing with issues like that will just piss off a person! Spend all that cash and all you want is a good shootin rifle!

 

[jonbearman]

You dont need to spend a hundred dollars for a lap.You can just buy a lap and a tube of permatex valve gring compound(fine grit).

 

[waterdog]

Burris Signature rings will get rid of any alignment or torque problems. I use them on everything.

 

[CT10ring]

Don't bother lapping. Get another scope to try out to verify...., be sure your bases are tight on receiver. If you can snag a buddies Nightforce or
Vortex mil spec type, so much the better. Hate to say it, but expensive scopes are expensive for a reason.

Then you'll know for sure, erectors in inexpensive scopes are suspect. Parallax with a focusing adjustment knob/ring is not an issue.
Get good bases NF, Badger & Leup Mk IV rings - they will be concentric. Talley is awesome, too, and Ken Farrell rings bases are great too. then you'll be good to go.

 

[Edo]

Parallax with a focusing adjustment knob/ring is not an issue.

How can you say that? Looking at the target he provided it looks like two different groups. Improper parallax adjustment and/or an inconsistent hold will cause that. Takes about five seconds when shooting to see if it's set correctly.

 

[BigDMT]

Don't bother lapping. Get another scope to try out to verify...., be sure your bases are tight on receiver. If you can snag a buddies Nightforce or
Vortex mil spec type, so much the better. Hate to say it, but expensive scopes are expensive for a reason.

Then you'll know for sure, erectors in inexpensive scopes are suspect. Parallax with a focusing adjustment knob/ring is not an issue.
Get good bases NF, Badger & Leup Mk IV rings - they will be concentric. Talley is awesome, too, and Ken Farrell rings bases are great too. then you'll be good to go.

Wow! "don't lap rings" ..."parallax is not an issue" ...mmmmmmm, ok sure, that's sound advice :

 

[CT10ring]

Well, if the rings are pricey, they should be matched. Or at least I
Believe what manufacturers tell me, at $150/ pair. I have never lapped rings,
so I can't say about that old school totem...Parallax - I was under the assumption that being able to
Adjust focus w knob, ring-effective end of problem, vs a fixed focus at say 100 yds. Always my understanding.

I will suspend my advice. Just saying, if you / OP HAVE a focusing ring, knob, that reduces parallax error, correct ? Am I missing something, or is OP, help us out.
What is the issue for OP? I was saying try a very robust scope to see if scope was culprit. He asked is his scope bad, I said try another...so what the solution experienced scope peeps.

OK re-read, OH varmint shooter HAS AO scope, so there is either a problem with the scope or his technique:

"In optical instruments such as telescopes, microscopes, or in telescopic sights used on small arms and theodolites, the error occurs when the optics are not precisely focused: the reticle will appear to move with respect to the object focused on if one moves one's head sideways in front of the eyepiece. Some firearm telescopic sights are equipped with a parallax compensation mechanism which basically consists of a movable optical element that enables the optical system to project the picture of objects at varying distances and the reticle crosshairs pictures together in exactly the same optical plane. Telescopic sights may have no parallax compensation because they can perform very acceptably without refinement for parallax with the sight being permanently adjusted for the distance that best suits their intended usage. Typical standard factory parallax adjustment distances for hunting telescopic sights are 100 yd or 100 m to make them suited for hunting shots ".

I am going to flog myself with an old bent cleaning rod, in penance, and yet perchance, there is some veracity here.

two words : cheek weld. another 2: new scope.

 

[GSPV]

Try a different scope. If it completely clears up, then you have a good idea that it was the scope. *Any* scope that won't pass the square test isn't worth having.

With that said, I highly recommend the Burris Signature Zee Rings. Great product. I just don't think that the rings are your problem.

 

[Webster]

Talk to Mueller or whoever you bought the scope from as soon as possible. You don't want to go past the return/warranty period. Even if the warranty was one year it's best to complain right away. It sounds like you have done enough to prove the scope is bad. Let them examine the scope.