Is HD glass Worth it

[centershot]

If a person were to purchase a bench rest scope, is it worth it to pay extra for HD glass? This would be by the same manufacturer and the same model.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Sir,
You state, "by the same manufacturer and the same model."

Are you talking about Sightron SVSS / SVSSED scopes by chance ? - If so they are not the same model number, yes they are the same "series" product line. (But not the same item number)

I have both the standard non-ED models and a new ED model and all I can tell you is both are excellent, I have yet to put both side-by-side which IMO is the only way to really answer that question. - Everyone's eyes are different and some may say yes the extra cost is justified and others may not, or may not see a discernible difference that justifies the additional cost.

- Ron -

 

[centershot]

Ron,

Yes, that is what I am comparing.

 

[shoot4fun]

Don't you wonder if the glass isn't the only difference? From all I've read (haven't compared) there is much more to the difference in SVSS and SVSSED.

Disregard!!!
I was jumbling up all the letters and didn't realize the newer SVSSED upgrades the SVSS instead of the original 10-60 what ever letter scope that upgraded.

 

[F Class John]

For what it’s worth any given optic could have a dozen pieces of glass inside of it. A manufacturer only has to have one lens in there that is HD In order to call it an HD product. If you ask any high-end rifle scope manufacturer or spotting scope manufacturer they will usually tell you that HD isn’t something that you should use as a comparison tool for buying quality optics. It is largely marketing program.

You could put a single HD lens in the most non-essential place on a scope And have another scope that puts a single HD lens in the most essential place on the scope and if you only went by the box you wouldn’t know the difference. That’s not even counting manufacturers who use multiple pieces of HD glass and where they choose to put them.That’s all I’m trying to say.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Sightron has 4 model / type numbered SVSS (Non-ED) in 10-50x
#27000 is a non-illuminated MOA2 reticle with 1/4 moa clicks
#27001 is a non-illuminated MIL-HASH reticle with 0.05 mil. clicks
#27002 is an illuminated MOA2 reticle with 1/4 moa clicks
#27003 is an illuminated MIL-HASH reticle with 0.05 mil. clicks

Sightron has 2 / type numbered SVSSED scopes in 10-50x
#27008 is an ED scope that is non-illuminated and has cross-hairs and a 1/10th moa dot
#27011 is an ED scope that is illuminated and has a Zero Stop, and a MOA-H reticle

https://sightronusa.com/riflescopes/sv/ is the link to their web-site for these SVSS scopes.


IMO if you can get a Non-ED model at a good price, that is the way to go. and @F Class John made what I think is a good point. "HD isn’t something that you should use as a comparison tool for buying quality optics."

I would look at the features and the reticles and select the scope that best suits your shooting needs based on those features, not simply because it is ED or not ED.

I have 4 of the Non-ED models and have ZERO regrets in buying them, the last two I paid about 50% of what the retail price is as I lucked into a great deal on Amazon during their "prime days" sales.

I purchased a 27008 ED scope with the 1/10th moa dot & 1/8th moa clicks to use on a 1000 yard Benchrest competition rifle where weight is not a factor. (Heavy-Class Gun).

- Ron -

 

[centershot]

Thanks all for the info. I think I know which road to travel.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

You have to understand what ED glass, what it's designed to do and how to use it.

ED glass has been around since its invention by Nikon in the late 1960s. Other glassmakers have come up with similar since. ED stands for Extra Low Dispersion. What it's used for is to address a phenomenon know as chromatic aberration, sometimes known as "color fringing."

CA is the result of light being bent by the glass and having the various wavelenghts that make up the light be focused slightly out of phase with each other. Glass made form pure fluorite crystals is essentially free of CA, but that kind of glass is definitely not free ($$$) and it's fragile and subject temperature changes. Some very high end camera lenses use fluorite glass, riflescopes don't. ED glass contains fluorite crystals along with other material. ED glass approaches the CA reducing capabilities of fluorite glass, but it's not as capable of eliminating it. Super-ED has more fluorite crystals and thus reduces CA more than ED glass, but still not as much as pure fluorite.

In a riflescope, there are many lens elements, not dozens, but less than 15 for the high magnification scopes and less than 10 for fixed power. Camera lenses on the other hand, can easily have more that 15 lens elements, up to around 20 for the lenses that do wide-angle to telephoto.

You only need one or maybe two of these elements to be ED or Super-ED glass to get the CA reduction that you look for. I have several camera lenses with ED glass and I think only one of them has 2 ED elements and that's an 18-300MM lens.

But what does chromatic aberration do or put another way, what does having ED glass in your riflescope do for you?

If you are a target shooter, especially a competition shooter staring at a target with rings on it, in a non-ED glass scope you will notice that the rings are a little fuzzy, a little hairy. When you use an ED-glass riflescope, the rings are crisper, more defined and much less hairy. What ED glass does for you is provide better color definition and better contrast by reducing the color fringing for the whole image. Things just look crisper, less washed out. Also, by upping the the contrast, things become sharper and you get better IQ from it. The resolution may not increase, but the IQ will.

So, when you're on the line and you're trying to place your reticle between two rings on the target and you want to shade it a little right or left, and be able to repeat that, having a less hairy ring helps a lot.

If you're hunting or snipering or just shooting targets and plinking, no need for ED glass.

 

[284winner]

You have to understand what ED glass, what it's designed to do and how to use it.

ED glass has been around since its invention by Nikon in the late 1960s. Other glassmakers have come up with similar since. ED stands for Extra Low Dispersion. What it's used for is to address a phenomenon know as chromatic aberration, sometimes known as "color fringing."

CA is the result of light being bent by the glass and having the various wavelenghts that make up the light be focused slightly out of phase with each other. Glass made form pure fluorite crystals is essentially free of CA, but that kind of glass is definitely not free ($$$) and it's fragile and subject temperature changes. Some very high end camera lenses use fluorite glass, riflescopes don't. ED glass contains fluorite crystals along with other material. ED glass approaches the CA reducing capabilities of fluorite glass, but it's not as capable of eliminating it. Super-ED has more fluorite crystals and thus reduces CA more than ED glass, but still not as much as pure fluorite.

In a riflescope, there are many lens elements, not dozens, but less than 15 for the high magnification scopes and less than 10 for fixed power. Camera lenses on the other hand, can easily have more that 15 lens elements, up to around 20 for the lenses that do wide-angle to telephoto.

You only need one or maybe two of these elements to be ED or Super-ED glass to get the CA reduction that you look for. I have several camera lenses with ED glass and I think only one of them has 2 ED elements and that's an 18-300MM lens.

But what does chromatic aberration do or put another way, what does having ED glass in your riflescope do for you?

If you are a target shooter, especially a competition shooter staring at a target with rings on it, in a non-ED glass scope you will notice that the rings are a little fuzzy, a little hairy. When you use an ED-glass riflescope, the rings are crisper, more defined and much less hairy. What ED glass does for you is provide better color definition and better contrast by reducing the color fringing for the whole image. Things just look crisper, less washed out. Also, by upping the the contrast, things become sharper and you get better IQ from it. The resolution may not increase, but the IQ will.

So, when you're on the line and you're trying to place your reticle between two rings on the target and you want to shade it a little right or left, and be able to repeat that, having a less hairy ring helps a lot.

If you're hunting or snipering or just shooting targets and plinking, no need for ED glass.

Excellent description of ED glass in a rifle scope.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I wanted to add a couple more things. Chromatic aberration is very much a function of the amount of magnification the lens system produces. The higher the magnification, the greater the CA. This is why you see more of a differentiation between ED-glass and non-ED glass in high-magnification scopes.

It's interesting to note that for photographic purposes, ED glass is no longer as important as it used to be due to the advent of digital photography. CA in a picture is easily fixed in PP, by just pressing a button. Oh well, I still insist on ED glass in my camera lenses; it does have a higher refractive index than regular glass. And it does a better job for IQ at maximum aperture settings, where more of the lens is used.

 

[davidjoe]

I notice a huge difference. My old go-to NSX scopes, while fine for dissecting a target in matches, have been eclipsed. They date back to when I started FClass and got a 25x Kowa TSN 83 with Fluorite lenses. I had come to believe that only a big spotting scope could deliver edge to edge resolution of that quality. Until I found HD scopes that were similar much later. Of course we don’t need edge to edge perfection in matches because we look at the same 10% in the middle all day.

 

[Raythemanroe]

If a person were to purchase a bench rest scope, is it worth it to pay extra for HD glass? This would be by the same manufacturer and the same model.

Maybe, because there isn't a standard for claiming such.

Ray

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I notice a huge difference. My old go-to NSX scopes, while fine for dissecting a target in matches, have been eclipsed. They date back to when I started FClass and got a 25x Kowa TSN 83 with Fluorite lenses. I had come to believe that only a big spotting scope could deliver edge to edge resolution of that quality. Until I found HD scopes that were similar much later. Of course we don’t need edge to edge perfection in matches because we look at the same 10% in the middle all day.

That Kowa is one super optic. Don't drop it.

You make a good point about the middle of the lens in a riflescope, but do remember that as we crank the elevation up to get the distance, the erector tube moves away from the sweet spot of the lens, which is why you always try to stay as close as possible to the middle of the adjustment range in order to get the very bestest IQ. A spotting scope does not have an erector tube so you're always looking through the sweet spot in the middle and, as you say, the fluorite lenses are a cut above when it comes to controlling dispersion and providing a high refractive index.

 

[foxguy]

Excellent discussion, thanks to all.

 

[centershot]

 

[Justin Credible]

It's interesting to note that for photographic purposes, ED glass is no longer as important as it used to be due to the advent of digital photography. CA in a picture is easily fixed in PP, by just pressing a button. Oh well, I still insist on ED glass in my camera lenses; it does have a higher refractive index than regular glass. And it does a better job for IQ at maximum aperture settings, where more of the lens is used.

Low dispersion glass has a LOWER index of refraction. Which creates issues with other aberrations. There is no free lunch in lens design.

Justin

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Low dispersion glass has a LOWER index of refraction. Which creates issues with other aberrations. There is no free lunch in lens design.

Justin

It looks like I read the table incorrectly. Thanks for the correction.

 

[F Class John]

In a riflescope, there are many lens elements, not dozens, but less than 15 for the high magnification scopes and less than 10 for fixed power.

Thank you for correcting me (I corrected my post). In my haste to make a point about how some companies manipulate the 'HD' moniker I got a little gratuitous in my lens count.

 

[Centuriator]

Why would anyone involved in ELD shooting buy a POS Sightron scope?

 

[Evan]

Why would anyone involved in ELD shooting buy a POS Sightron scope?

Have you looked through any of their high end scopes in the past couple years? The SVSS-ED is far from a POS.