Interesting my new Shilen is short throated.

[MrBottleneck]

Erud, wouldn't I add my jump of .020 to that giving me .456?
Yes, the datum of the boat tail (where is starts taper) of the smk is just about at the neck to shoulder junction which looks about right.
Gotta sleep this had me sitting up thinking most the night so, I couldnt sleep. I will revisit this later today.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

(Am I saying the title correctly)
This is the first Shilen Select Match barrel (.308-28") I have ever bought and it sure has a short throat. It replaced a factory 26" .308 Savage barrel on my 10 FPXP.
I was shooting 43gr of Varget pushing 168smk's seated .020 off the lands, but its obvious that is not going to work with this new barrel.
Due to the chamber on this new barrel using that same calculation it would be compressed load at 104.4%.

With the new Shilen I was at the lands with the 168smk using the stoney point gauge at 2.794 coal and averaged 2.220 to the ogive.

Is this typical of the Shilen barrel?
I reckon it could be a blessing in disguise but darn its a tight one.

Why are you blaming the Shilen 'barrel'? Has nothing to do with the barrel. Its just the reamer they used. Does it shoot? I wouldn't be complaining or asking questions just yet. Could end up being the best shooting barrel you've ever had. Never know

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I'd like to ask a stupid question. Wouldn't a shallower throat give you a bit more barrel life, particularly if you're chasing the lands with your loads?

Not necessarily. The lands does not wear out evenly. It never will and at some point it will be too bad to continue chasing. Might give you more life if you continue to use a throating reamer to sharpen and even out the face of the lands.

 

[Highpower-FClass]

Why are you blaming the Shilen 'barrel'? Has nothing to do with the barrel. Its just the reamer they used. Does it shoot? I wouldn't be complaining or asking questions just yet. Could end up being the best shooting barrel you've ever had. Never know

I don't get the impression OP is complaining or blaming the barrel but rather was surprised that the reamer used had a shorter throat than he expected and wanted to check here to see if what he was seeing is out of the norm. Based on one other data point (my barrel) it seems to be within what can be expected for Shilen 308 barrels when no specific freebore is specified.

As far as shooting the barrel to see how it does - great advice, I would second that.

OP, in terms of needing longer freebore it would depend on whether you can get the projectile you want to shoot to the velocities you want without excessive pressures. I would also say 'try it' and if it works for you there might be no need to send it back to Shilen and potentially pay the extra cost.

Looking back at my records I shot the 168 SMK all the way up to 45 grains of Varget with an OAL of 2.783. <-- Do not attempt this without careful load workup, worked fine in my rifle, might create excessive pressures in yours

Also, not sure how you arrive at 104.4% compression with 43 grains of Varget. Looking in QL it says 99.3% fill with 43 grains Varget using 168gr SMK with an OAL of 2.783.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

If freebore is a concern for using certain bullets in a given caliber, this question should always be raised with the barrel supplier BEFORE purchasing. I'm sure Shilen would be more than willing to accommodate any special customer requests if possible to ensure a person gets exactly what they're looking for.

 

[Dgd6mm]

My Criterion 30" FTR barrel has a .092 freebore. I shoot 185 Berger Juggernaut at almost 2800 fps using H4895. The difference of the ogive from my bullet to yours allows me to seat further out at 2.920" with a slight jump. I bought some 500 175 NOSLER RDF blems to shoot in my .308 tac rifle, this chamber is a 95 Palma which has a shorter throat then my ftr rifle. These Nosler RDF bullets may help you out, or you could have it throated.


Don Dunlap

 

[fm1947]

(Am I saying the title correctly)
This is the first Shilen Select Match barrel (.308-28") I have ever bought and it sure has a short throat. It replaced a factory 26" .308 Savage barrel on my 10 FPXP.
I was shooting 43gr of Varget pushing 168smk's seated .020 off the lands, but its obvious that is not going to work with this new barrel.
Due to the chamber on this new barrel using that same calculation it would be compressed load at 104.4%.

With the new Shilen I was at the lands with the 168smk using the stoney point gauge at 2.794 coal and averaged 2.220 to the ogive.

Is this typical of the Shilen barrel?
I reckon it could be a blessing in disguise but darn its a tight one.

If you bought from the factory you needed to send a dummy round on how you want it throated , other wise you will have little to zero freebore, I buy a lot of shilen's from factory or you can also ask for reamer print that will tell you everything they'll email it to you free no charge

 

[Highpower-FClass]

If freebore is a concern for using certain bullets in a given caliber, this question should always be raised with the barrel supplier BEFORE purchasing. I'm sure Shilen would be more than willing to accommodate any special customer requests if possible to ensure a person gets exactly what they're looking for.

This is correct, Shilen can throat either to dummy rounds or use a customer provided reamer. Coincidentally I used the dummy-round option for the second 308 barrel I bought from them

 

[fm1947]

I was just told the freebore is .090
Here is a picture of the reamer specs that was used.
Help me to understand how I am touching the lands with a 168smk. at 2.794 coal with these specs.
I am at a loss to understand this.
View attachment 1005707

Just saw your print send barrel back with a dummy where you want the bullet probably base of bullets at shoulder junction.

 

[Cory porter]

(Am I saying the title correctly)
This is the first Shilen Select Match barrel (.308-28") I have ever bought and it sure has a short throat. It replaced a factory 26" .308 Savage barrel on my 10 FPXP.
I was shooting 43gr of Varget pushing 168smk's seated .020 off the lands, but its obvious that is not going to work with this new barrel.
Due to the chamber on this new barrel using that same calculation it would be compressed load at 104.4%.

With the new Shilen I was at the lands with the 168smk using the stoney point gauge at 2.794 coal and averaged 2.220 to the ogive.

Is this typical of the Shilen barrel?
I reckon it could be a blessing in disguise but darn its a tight one.

I just got a 6br barrel from nss and it was roughly 60thou shorter than my stock savage. It shocked me as well

 

[MrBottleneck]

I don't get the impression OP is complaining or blaming the barrel but rather was surprised that the reamer used had a shorter throat than he expected and wanted to check here to see if what he was seeing is out of the norm.

Exactly Fredrik. I am not a experienced barrel guru and as I stated this was my first Shilen barrel.
I consider myself fortunate I can ask the more experienced guys here when questions arise. Asking questions is how we learn. Granted this weekend will probably be as much patching as shooting but, it very well could be the best barrel I have ever had.
Sorry, if anyone interpreted I was blaming anyone (esp. Shilen) it was never my intention and I absolutely am not.
If anyone is to blame its me for not being a more versed in ordering a barrel.
Thanks for everyones input on this matter.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Exactly Fredrik. I am not a experienced barrel guru and as I stated this was my first Shilen barrel.
I consider myself fortunate I can ask the more experienced guys here when questions arise. Asking questions is how we learn. Granted this weekend will probably be as much patching as shooting but, it very well could be the best barrel I have ever had.
Sorry, if anyone interpreted I was blaming anyone (esp. Shilen) it was never my intention and I absolutely am not.
If anyone is to blame its me for not being a more versed in ordering a barrel.
Thanks for everyones input on this matter.

I have 3 rifles currently wearing Shilen barrels. All of them were very easy to load for and are extremely accurate. I'm sure you won't be disappointed

 

[Zero333]

I have 3 Shilen pre-fits. 300winmag, 308win and 243win... They all have short freebore ! but they shoot very nicely.

the 308win I have has 0.090" freebore. And the other 2 about the same.

I favor VLD type bullets since they don't sit as deep in the case due to their shorter bearing surface.

I've measured a few different lots of 168smk to the lands in the 308win and they ranged from 2.77" to 2.785".

I can seat bullets 0.020" in the lands and not have them jam in the rifling. Meaning I can extract a live round and it doesn't feel any different than one that has the bullet jumping.

Want more freebore ??? best would be to have a smith run a throater to your desired coal.
You can also buy a throater from PT&G that doesn't require a lathe, just your hands and brain.

 

[Ned Ludd]

After reading this, I am still not sure why you are stating that your throat is "short". Actually, it is the "lead" or "freebore" you're referring to, not the throat. In any event, for bullets in the 155 to 175 gr range, .090" freebore is actually pretty generous. That freebore will allow you to seat bullets in that weight range (OAL range) optimally in the neck so that you're not having to jump them a country mile, and still can load to mag length. With any longer of a freebore, you would be forced to jump bullets in that weight (length) range a very long way if they were loaded to mag length. I load 185 Juggernauts in a chamber that has 0.085" freebore at .015" off the lands. Although the boattail/bearing surface junction is barely above the neck/shoulder junction, they shoot very well indeed. At 2.898" COAL, that load is much too long to feed from a mag, but I use them in F-TR, where we are required to single feed, so that doesn't matter. The difference in my COAL for that load is largely due to the much longer nose of the 185 as compared to the SMK 168.

In any event, I don't see any problem, your chamber was cut exactly where it should be for the bullet you are loading. I have checked your length numbers and compared them to my 185 load and within the typical variances in bullet OAL, everything checks out exactly as I would expect. Freebore lengths in the .080" to .090" are just about perfect for commerical loads with 168 to 175 gr bullets. Perhaps you can elaborate further on exactly why you think the chamber is cut short. Unless you were having to sink the bullet so far down in the neck that the boattail/bearing surface junction is well below the neck/shoulder junction, I don't see that you are giving up any significant amount of case volume, and your COAL doesn't bear that out. In other words, what is it that you are not able to accomplish with that chamber that you could accomplish if it had a longer freebore? I can tell you for sure that if it was much longer, you would be forced to jump the 168s a long way if you were loading to mag length, certainly much farther than 20 or 30 thousandths. Nothing wrong with that if they shoot ok, and certainly not uncommon in factory rifles, which are typically chambered to accommodate factory loads without issue. But that is not necessarily desirable for handloads where you would like to be able to seat the bullet within a certain region of the case neck, jump the bullet a reasonable amount for optimal grouping, and still be able to load to mag length.

 

[eric32]

Mrbottleneck,

With a 2.800 for the 168 smk is standard woth .090 freebore.

Alot of good information is passed along in this thread. The freebore vs throat issue is a common mistake made so now that it had been clarified you know what to look for.

@everyone esle on this thread

Lets not get too cut throat on this issue. We are all here to teach and give advise to the best of our knowledge and help out a new guy.

 

[Baddog0302]

I'd like to ask a stupid question. Wouldn't a shallower throat give you a bit more barrel life, particularly if you're chasing the lands with your loads?

The only stupid questions are those not asked.
Mr. Bottleneck, at what distances are you planning to shoot ??