Interesting cleaning solvent thread

[butchlambert]

I hope this link works.

Testing LOTS of gun cleaners effectiveness at carbon removal

You may or may not find this interesting so consider exactly how much you paid for it …. ;) I started this test a few years ago and since I’ve added a few more products to my shelves I decided to dust it off and update my test results. I used every liquid (oils, CLPS and you name it) that I...

www.rimfireaccuracy.com

 

[mongo chicago]

I commend you and your patience it took to do that

 

[butchlambert]

I commend you and your patience it took to do that

I wish I could take credit for this, but another shooter did this.

 

[Fuj]

I just read the first part of his test, and seen one major problem.
The first part of the test is just burning powder on top of steel.
It does not address bullet after bullet after bullet of ironing the
layers of carbon from each following shot. A chemical called
"Piston Kleen" is what I have been using for a couple of years
now. It's was made for removing the layers of baked on carbon
from the tops of pistons.

 

[divingin]

I think his lead deposit technique is different than what happens in a barrel. Lead in a barrel is either friction deposited (rubbed off the bullet onto the steel), or vapor deposited. Neither involves hot steel. He's essentially soldering the lead onto the steel, which probably won't come off no matter what you do.

Edit: Butch; thanks for posting this. Interesting read.

 

[butchlambert]

I just read the first part of his test, and seen one major problem.
The first part of the test is just burning powder on top of steel.
It does not address bullet after bullet after bullet of ironing the
layers of carbon from each following shot. A chemical called
"Piston Kleen" is what I have been using for a couple of years
now. It's was made for removing the layers of baked on carbon
from the tops of pistons.

Fuj, he is addressing carbon fouling only, not the lead from the RF bullets.

 

[Fuj]

Fuj, he is addressing carbon fouling only, not the lead from the RF bullets.

I understand that but I'm not referring to lead. I'm referring to
the hammering of the carbon into the bore after each successive
shot, and also the carbon ring the eventually grows. His test does
not address that. His test in effect would be like cleaning a barrel
after one shot and does'nt really address the carbon after a string
of fire under high pressure. I'm am not referring to any type of
exposed lead bullet, just our typical copper jacketed bullets we
push near 3000 fps.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I think you have a valid point Fuj. I have found no magical chemical for carbon removal. If there is any magic it's called "soak time". As far as lead, I have been shooting my S&W 41 just about every day. Either 30 or on occasion 60 rounds. I clean every other session. Hoppes mixed with Kroil plus 2 passes one way with a bronze brush keeps it spotless. Skip the brush and in a week I have a lead/ wax/carbon built up it the front of where the case ends. Just the fact there are so many products out there is proof to me there is none ahead of many others. I have been cleaning a 30br barrel since Sunday. I have used 3 name cleaners along with a bit of brushing . Last evening I patched it out, it came out clean. Now this was less than my normal cleaning time but I think as much or more than many do. I ran a patch wet with water through. Took that patch and put 4 drops of Dawn x4 on it. Scrubbed it back and forth until I had lots of suds. Left it sit 6 hours, ran a patch through it......black. The saga continues. Barrel had 40 rounds, 30br, out of it. I wish there was a magic formula, I haven't seen it. I have numerous times taken guns the owners had pronounce clean and shown then they were very dirty.

 

[PopCharlie]

Interesting.....thanks for posting.
Lately, I've been using Free All and bronze brushes to get the hard carbon out. It has been working for me. Down to bare metal, even in the throat area.
PopCharlie

 

[DShortt]

I would agree that the conditions of the test above are considerably different than those in a barrel. I would also think that if a cleaner can't completely remove fouling/deposits in the test above it's highly unlikely that the same cleaner would perform better in a chamber/barrel.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I think you have a valid point Fuj. I have found no magical chemical for carbon removal. If there is any magic it's called "soak time". As far as lead, I have been shooting my S&W 41 just about every day. Either 30 or on occasion 60 rounds. I clean every other session. Hoppes mixed with Kroil plus 2 passes one way with a bronze brush keeps it spotless. Skip the brush and in a week I have a lead/ wax/carbon built up it the front of where the case ends. Just the fact there are so many products out there is proof to me there is none ahead of many others. I have been cleaning a 30br barrel since Sunday. I have used 3 name cleaners along with a bit of brushing . Last evening I patched it out, it came out clean. Now this was less than my normal cleaning time but I think as much or more than many do. I ran a patch wet with water through. Took that patch and put 4 drops of Dawn x4 on it. Scrubbed it back and forth until I had lots of suds. Left it sit 6 hours, ran a patch through it......black. The saga continues. Barrel had 40 rounds, 30br, out of it. I wish there was a manic formula, I haven't seen it. I have numerous times taken guns the owners had pronounce clean and shown then they were very dirty.

Jeff, that is really strange for a 30BR barrel
I know shooters, really good shooters, who rarely clean their 30BR’s, period. Most shoot 4198.

I have shot matches cleaning it after every target, and complete Grand Aggs without cleaning at all, only cleaning it after the last match of the day.

It just doesn’t seem to make any difference.

But then, while I have a bore scope, I do not use it to tell how clean my barrels are. I am much more concerned with how it shoots dirty.

 

[Emmett Dibble]

But then, while I have a bore scope, I do not use it to tell how clean my barrels are. I am much more concerned with how it shoots dirty.

Shoot a different sport but THAT... If my rifle shoots lights out it's no good to me if it shoots like hell dirty... ie, the end of the match and in shoot offs...

 

[butchlambert]

F

I understand that but I'm not referring to lead. I'm referring to
the hammering of the carbon into the bore after each successive
shot, and also the carbon ring the eventually grows. His test does
not address that. His test in effect would be like cleaning a barrel
after one shot and does'nt really address the carbon after a string
of fire under high pressure. I'm am not referring to any type of
exposed lead bullet, just our typical copper jacketed bullets we
push near 3000 fps.

Fuj, typically we shoot about 1050-1070fps in our RF rifles. He is looking for a carbon cleaner. I use the old GM TEC and old Hoppes. This is my RF cleaner. For my CF I use my home made GM TEC, white ammonia, and Kroil.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Jeff, that is really strange for a 30BR barrel
I know shooters, really good shooters, who rarely clean their 30BR’s, period. Most shoot 4198.

I have shot matches cleaning it after every target, and complete Grand Aggs without cleaning at all, only cleaning it after the last match of the day.

It just doesn’t seem to make any difference.

But then, while I have a bore scope, I do not use it to tell how clean my barrels are. I am much more concerned with how it shoots dirty.

This barrel is north of 7000 rounds. Lots of books and crannies. Through the borescope this barrel is very interesting. I shot LT30 for the second time. 100, 200, and 400 yards was fine. 300 had some disagreements between the operator and the flags. Bad when you do better at 400 than 300 with very similar conditions.

 

[JEFFPPC]

F

Fuj, typically we shoot about 1050-1070fps in our RF rifles. He is looking for a carbon cleaner. I use the old GM TEC and old Hoppes. This is my RF cleaner. For my CF I use my home made GM TEC, white ammonia, and Kroil.

Gm Top Engine Cleaner, I ran out of it 2 years ago. Sad day.

 

[butchlambert]

Gm Top Engine Cleaner, I ran out of it 2 years ago. Sad day.

Yes sir, I have only 1 case of it left.

 

[ChrisNZ]

Butch- what are the proportions of your CF brew? I still have two cans of TEC left.

 

[butchlambert]

Chris, I use an old gallon glass jug and put 8 oz of white ammonia, 8 oz of Kroil, and the rest GM TEC.

 

[DHall_37]

I like the ol EDs red formula with out the acetone and add SAE 30. Gonna make a batch with marvel mystery oil too.

The Ed’s formula really eats up the carbon fouling and it’s pretty much the exact recipe in the Military’s Radcolube. Plus I can make it cheap.

 

[ChrisNZ]

Chris, I use an old gallon glass jug and put 8 oz of white ammonia, 8 oz of Kroil, and the rest GM TEC.

Mixing in that quantity, you obviously do a -heap- of cleaning