Inside case neck reamer or case neck turning?
Which one do you think would work better?
Which one do you think would work better?
Inside case neck reamer or case neck turning?
- Thread starter williepete
- Start date
Like most answers, it depends.....on what you are trying to accomplish. Neck turning for tight neck chambers or variations in neck wall thickness. Inside neck reaming for removing doughnuts.
PopCharlie
PopCharlie
Currently doing battle with some 223 Lapua necked up to form a 6x45. Slight donut inside, but I sure don't want to turn these necks unless no other option. Have a Forster reamer on order, we'll see. The Wilson seemed too large and the 'C' drill bit works, but not very good control. Very little freebore so can't get above the donut.....
My answer is: depends on what you're doing.
My answer is: depends on what you're doing.
Richard J, if the bullet is seated out enough to not be in the doughnut then it is not an issue. What bullet and OAL are to using?
Frank
Frank
If I had won the lottery, I'd use the IDOD tool . . . or better yet, I'd have someone who has one do the turning of my brass for me. 
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
You are probably already aware, but sometimes it is worth letting a talented gunsmith extend that freebore till you can seat to your taste.
I will admit it is a PIA to set up all over again, but life is too short to fuss with a barrel that handicaps you for it's duration.... YMMV
^^^ Understood. I'm going to try this and see what happens. If the reamer doesn't fix it, then I'll just skim the necks a bit. Just time, and I have that.
The shipping is the PIA, not the setup. It's a Remage, so easy to set.
The shipping is the PIA, not the setup. It's a Remage, so easy to set.
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
Good set up.
I am really good at spending other folk's money...., but I would order the next barrel with the freebore to load the way you like now, and have it in the pipeline. That way, if you get tired of that brass prep you can just punt and screw on the next barrel. I don't like to sound negative but none of us are promised tomorrow, so today is precious. Carpe Diem!
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
Push the donut to the outside with a mandrel and turn it off OR, seat the bullet above it and go shooting. Better to seat above the donut.
If you ream the inside, you can't put it back.
Better yet, go with a no turn neck chamber.
Free bore too short? Use a lighter bullet then go heavier as the throat wears.
If you ream the inside, you can't put it back.
Better yet, go with a no turn neck chamber.
Free bore too short? Use a lighter bullet then go heavier as the throat wears.
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
Neck turning does two things.
First, it insures that the neck wall is a consistent thickness around and in it’s length.
second, it gives the desired clearance of a loaded round in the chamber’s neck.
neck reaming thins the neck walls by removing metal from the inside. It does nothing in the way of evening out inconsistencies in neck wall thickness. It will remove any donut at the neck shoulder junction.
The thing you remember is regardless whether you rem or turn, the donut will appear again after repeated firings and resizing.
So the best course is to choose a throat length, or bullet, that avoids the donut.
First, it insures that the neck wall is a consistent thickness around and in it’s length.
second, it gives the desired clearance of a loaded round in the chamber’s neck.
neck reaming thins the neck walls by removing metal from the inside. It does nothing in the way of evening out inconsistencies in neck wall thickness. It will remove any donut at the neck shoulder junction.
The thing you remember is regardless whether you rem or turn, the donut will appear again after repeated firings and resizing.
So the best course is to choose a throat length, or bullet, that avoids the donut.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
To my knowledge, no competitive shooter reams to uniform neck thickness. They all turn. A reamer will follow the hole that you put it in. I have some experience with this because of an experiment that I did some years ago. RCBS was kind enough to make me a custom ream die for my tight neck .222. The plan was to ream part way to my final neck thickness and turn to finalize that dimension. The goal was for the finished necks to be better aligned to the Cl of the case body. It turned out that there was no advantage to be had, and a couple of disadvantages. Despite the fact the die did all that could be done to hold the neck and reamer in coaxial alignment, the reamed necks were not nearly as concentric as those that I simply turned. There is one common use for reamers, to remove so called "doughnuts" from the insides of case necks. For that, you probably want a reamer that is only slightly over bullet diameter. I have been told about .001.
Thank you
that pretty much hits it on the head
www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/146-concentricity-problems
Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)
Concentricity Problems
a.k.a Neck Runout With Bottleneck CasesWe have conducted many tests over the years on the various factors contributing to concentricity problems with bottleneck cases. We have repeatedly found a definite correlation between the uniformity of the brass (or lack of it) and the resulting concentricity of the neck to the body of the case.
An interesting experiment also revealed that neck turning of brass that was intentionally sorted as non-uniform, showed little or no concentricity improvement when used in standard S.A.A.M.I. spec chambers. Conversely brass that was sorted and selected for uniformity remained uniform and concentric with or without a neck turning operation.
Another interesting observation can be found in the examination of fired cases that have crooked necks "as fired" right out of the chamber. Usually the chamber is being blamed for the problem.
Looking at the primers under magnification you can usually find a telltale machining mark or other blemish that was imprinted from the bolt face. This will give you an index mark with reference to the chamber. Mark this index mark on the cases with a felt tip marker and go about checking the concentricity. If the runout is random to your index marks the problem is not the chamber. Further examination will show the same correlation with the good and bad brass
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
Boyd, I cut the inner necks on every 30BR case I make, prior to neck turning. Whether they are mechanically expanded or f-formed with pistol power, they all get the same inner neck treatment. Only the dimensions of the cutter changes between mechanically necked up and f-formed.
This is the brass from 50 inner necks after expanding up:
Richard, a standard Wilson neck reamer is .002 over what the bullet measures (.245 for a .243 bullet). That's why it seems larger than the bullet...because it is. Wilson states this in their info on neck reamers. Wilson will also make reamers of a specific size for you. I have them from .305 to .309 in .001 increments and also in sizes for the .22's and 6's. You can also use a chucking reamer in the size you want.
Hope this helps. -Al
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Al, my answer was to the question of which to do, which I took to mean he was looking at doing one or the other, not both. In your case, when necking up, where the base of the new, larger neck comes from the thicker shoulder brass, reaming takes care of part of that problem. ( I know that you are well aware of this, but this is for others who read this thread.) I think that you would agree that reaming alone does not produce the concentricity that turning does, at least that has been my experience.Boyd, I cut the inner necks on every 30BR case I make, prior to neck turning. Whether they are mechanically expanded or f-formed with pistol power, they all get the same inner neck treatment. Only the dimensions of the cutter changes between mechanically necked up and f-formed.
This is the brass from 50 inner necks after expanding up:
Richard, a standard Wilson neck reamer is .002 over what the bullet measures (.245 for a .243 bullet). That's why it seems larger than the bullet...because it is. Wilson states this in their info on neck reamers. Wilson will also make reamers of a specific size for you. I have them from .305 to .309 in .001 increments and also in sizes for the .22's and 6's. You can also use a chucking reamer in the size you want.
Hope this helps. -Al
Al, understood. I'm going to try the Forster before doing custom or turning necks, undecided right now.
Thanks,
Rich
Neither neck turning, nor reaming are for 'concentricity'. The Redding tech-line tip described this well.
If your new cases show thickness variance, neck turning, and for sure reaming, will not mitigate growing loaded ammo runout. You're only working with the neck while runout comes from the entire case length.
You can mitigate donut formation(initially) with neck turning into neck-shoulder junction.
A lot of FL sizing will later roll thickness back up into necks. If your plan is so poor that you have to ream this away, and trim a bunch, then at least consider how your brass is changing with all this.
If your new cases show thickness variance, neck turning, and for sure reaming, will not mitigate growing loaded ammo runout. You're only working with the neck while runout comes from the entire case length.
You can mitigate donut formation(initially) with neck turning into neck-shoulder junction.
A lot of FL sizing will later roll thickness back up into necks. If your plan is so poor that you have to ream this away, and trim a bunch, then at least consider how your brass is changing with all this.
So to keep this going, and for me to cry a little bit, I just received a Forster ".243" reamer to try and de-donut my 6x45 brass. Very few bullets will seat above the donut, so it's either use them exclusively, inside neck ream, or neck turn. Since I'm known to be a bit stubborn on occasion, I want to use some heavier/longer bullets than the aforementioned few. The ".243" reamer is actually the same as the Wilson, about .2445 ish. So no go, since my fired ID is less than that. So they will get turned. Never say die says I........
I could send the barrel off to get the freebore lengthened, but I'm not that guy.
Just an FYI for someone that may be in the same boat.
Good learning experience for me.
R
I could send the barrel off to get the freebore lengthened, but I'm not that guy.
Just an FYI for someone that may be in the same boat.
Good learning experience for me.
R
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