Initial neck tension seating bullets once fired brass

[CTK]

Hello,
I am amazingly rusty at reloading. Has been a couple of years since I reloaded for myself. I stupidly agreed to "dial in" a friends rifle. Rifle in question is a new 308 Winchester. After several attempts, I had it shooting .5-.75" with 168g Nosler Ballistic tips and Varget. This is a deer hunting rifle. The rifle absolutely hated Barnes bullets and anything under 165g. I went through 100 new pieces of Lapua brass to get me to this point. I did not resize the new brass. Just cleaned them up. Am using RCBS standard seating and full length resizing dies provided by friend. Now with resized cases the 168g bullets have initial resistance "hump", to get started down the neck of the case when seating. I used one of the bullet pullers that you hit like a hammer to pull a few of this load. It was much more difficult to unseat the bullet than usual. Shot a few of this new resized batch and my groups opened up a decent amount. I honestly do not remember if a short and stiff resistance is normal for seating bullets. I cleaned up the brass mouths with an RCBS case prep station. I have not used RCBS dies in over a decade. I was/am used to Redding S dies. Is this normal and just a variance or should I get a new set of dies? Sorry for the possibly stupid question but I do not remember stiff seating resistance. I very slightly lubed the case mouths when resizing but not when seating. Thanks!

 

[drop_point]

Tried lubricating the mouths?

 

[CTK]

Tried lubricating the mouths?

Only when resizing. Certainly will when seating if recommended. Seem to remember doing this with Barnes bullets in past. Without I got copper shaving.

 

[Charlie-NY]

I'd run a mandrel in those cases after FL sizing. Leave residual lube in the case neck after using the mandrel. Assuming that an appropriate size mandrel is used, bullets should seat with light resistance and feel consistent from case to case. New brass never has a consistent seating feel IME.

 

[CTK]

I'd run a mandrel in those cases after FL sizing. Leave residual lube in the case neck after using the mandrel. Assuming that an appropriate size mandrel is used, bullets should seat with light resistance and feel consistent from case to case. New brass never has a consistent seating feel IME.

I ran a plastic brush though every case after champfering. Probably removed the lube.

 

[Shifty6br]

An inside chamfer will help a little also.

Rcbs standard fl dies in my past experience undersize the neck quite a bit more than necessary even with the expander button its working that neck pretty good. I can just feel the difference as I run rbcs sized brass thru a mandrel die vs Forster and Redding, being the two I use the most and on hand.

A smooth consistent seating force is a great feeling.

Try ditching the expander ball and taking a look at some mandrel dies.

 

[Webster]

Hello,
I am amazingly rusty at reloading. Has been a couple of years since I reloaded for myself. I stupidly agreed to "dial in" a friends rifle. Rifle in question is a new 308 Winchester. After several attempts, I had it shooting .5-.75" with 168g Nosler Ballistic tips and Varget. This is a deer hunting rifle. The rifle absolutely hated Barnes bullets and anything under 165g. I went through 100 new pieces of Lapua brass to get me to this point. I did not resize the new brass. Just cleaned them up. Am using RCBS standard seating and full length resizing dies provided by friend. Now with resized cases the 168g bullets have initial resistance "hump", to get started down the neck of the case when seating. I used one of the bullet pullers that you hit like a hammer to pull a few of this load. It was much more difficult to unseat the bullet than usual. Shot a few of this new resized batch and my groups opened up a decent amount. I honestly do not remember if a short and stiff resistance is normal for seating bullets. I cleaned up the brass mouths with an RCBS case prep station. I have not used RCBS dies in over a decade. I was/am used to Redding S dies. Is this normal and just a variance or should I get a new set of dies? Sorry for the possibly stupid question but I do not remember stiff seating resistance. I very slightly lubed the case mouths when resizing but not when seating. Thanks!

Do you have calipers to determine the difference between neck i,d. and bullet diameter. I would do load development with brass that was fired once and resized. New brass is under size.

 

[CTK]

An inside chamfer will help a little also.

Rcbs standard fl dies in my past experience undersize the neck quite a bit more than necessary even with the expander button its working that neck pretty good. I can just feel the difference as I run rbcs sized brass thru a mandrel die vs Forster and Redding, being the two I use the most and on hand.

A smooth consistent seating force is a great feeling.

Try ditching the expander ball and taking a look at some mandrel dies.

I use Redding bushing dies personally. These new dies belong to a friend. I am hoping to get this rifle shooting and out of my hands as quickly as possible. Rifle belongs to a friend.

 

[CTK]

Do you have calipers to determine the difference between neck i,d. and bullet diameter. I would do load development with brass that was fired once and resized. New brass is under size.

The new brass was smoother seating the bullets than the brass resized with the RCBS full length die with expander.

 

[mgunderson]

Hunting rifles, I like to run necks 0.002 to 0.003 inches below the seated bullet neck diameter. Watch the round in the magazine to make sure the bullets aren't moving under recoil.

308s are not typically super neck sensitive. Not that they can't be.

How did the seating depth test look?

 

[243winxb]

RCBS dies

The standard dies may over work the case necks. Normal.

 

[lefty222]

The new brass was smoother seating the bullets than the brass resized with the RCBS full length die with expander.

Mic the expander ball and go from there, make sure there is enough chamfer.

 

[ELR LVR]

VLD Chamfer the case mouths
Use steel wool to clean up the mouths of any burrs after chamfering
Some brass is stiffer than others
I have found Large Rifle Lapua cases to be this way
No amount of annealing relieved it, had to live with it
I like the elasticity of R-P brass in most cases - you might try them and see what your results are
Since it just a hunting rifle I dont see the point of opting for custom brass when R-P or Win Brass will do perfectly

 

[Texas Solo]

As said, RCBS standard dies tend to oversize (undersize) necks. And the expander ball is hell on the necks.

I went to bushing dies last year. Way better! My neck tensions are very consistent, better ES/SD also.

Measure the OD of a sized case before & after seating a bullet. The difference is your neck tension.

 

[Steve Donlon]

An inside chamfer will help a little also.

Rcbs standard fl dies in my past experience undersize the neck quite a bit more than necessary even with the expander button its working that neck pretty good. I can just feel the difference as I run rbcs sized brass thru a mandrel die vs Forster and Redding, being the two I use the most and on hand.

A smooth consistent seating force is a great feeling.

Try ditching the expander ball and taking a look at some mandrel dies.

there is only .001" difference between my RCBS sizing die and my neck turning mandrel for my 6.5 Creedmoor dies. .003" vs .002" neck tension.

 

[Chris Edmondson]

Neck peening from tumbling may result in an initial seating "bump", not clear from the OP how the brass was cleaned up.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Neck peening from tumbling may result in an initial seating "bump", not clear from the OP how the brass was cleaned up.

this ^^^^

interior neck surface is very important. wet tumbling with pins is about the worst thing you can do. bare brass is very abrasive and sticky

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Those Barnes bullets need to be at least 0.050 of the lands(by my experience). My 30TC I run them 0.070 off the rifling, so their short of a cup and core 165 gr coal.

 

[Doom]

You are assuming a lot when you use something supplied by someone else. You need to measure the diameter of the expander mandrel. I would expect it to be around 0.305" if I remember correctly. The 165/168 BT is a boat tail so you have the possibility that the bullet is have to excessively expanding the neck or that the brass is too clean. Those are about the only possible explanations.