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Increase in bearing surface to increase in pressure

Ran a pressure/speed test with a given type of bullet. Two other types of same weight have longer bearing surfaces. Is there a way to approximate what the increase in pressure will be thus change in velocity with the longer bearing surface?
I'm going to fire it, but was just kind of wondering ahead of time to adjust the charges I'm testing.
 
I get lost in this stuff
Longer bearing surface the higher the pressure?
Number of rifling grooves?
Deeper the cut of the rifling?
Rate of twist?
Type of rifling?
What advantage may gain twist have?
And to top it off: I’ve had many hunting rifles. Weatherby,s are the most accurate and consistent for the first shot thru a cold barrel ( kind of important in a hunting gun) is this because of the huge free bore? (I know what it does to pressures and that the thin barrel doesn’t come into play with one shot.. maybe.)
 
There is given that only bearing surface is changed and nothing else. Unfortunately things like jacket hardness, jacket thickness, jacket material are probably different so the real world results are probably going to be different than what a GRT or Quickload will predict.
 
Well ended up the difference between 90gr SMK and 88gr ELD was worth around .2gr.

I have quickload (v3.5) but there isn't a feature for bearing surface wish it did calculate that some how.
Thanks
 
Ran a pressure/speed test with a given type of bullet. Two other types of same weight have longer bearing surfaces. Is there a way to approximate what the increase in pressure will be thus change in velocity with the longer bearing surface?
I'm going to fire it, but was just kind of wondering ahead of time to adjust the charges I'm testing.
I ran a test a few years back where I had sorted a 500 count box of 168 SMK's and found a number of them with significant difference in the bearing surface lengths. Between the longest and shortest batch, I had a .033" difference. That difference prompted me to run a test to see how that difference might show up. If velocity is more a function of pressure than friction, I think you might draw some conclusions from the numbers I got where, yes, more bearing surface increases pressure (see pics below). Not only saw a definite difference in velocity, but also in POI.

Data Sheet.jpgMOA Pic.jpg

Note, I also measured the bullet's OAL and weight to see what differences there was with these different bearing surface lengths (Note, BL = Bullet Length):

Bullet Weight.jpgBullet Weight 2.jpg

As for your question about a way to approximate an increase in pressure, I think it might be done by simply creating a new bullet profile of a bullet from what's in QL's database, then compare and see what QL calculates.
 
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Look at Hornady's reloading manual 11th edition... bullets in 30-06...180 gr round nose, l76 grAtip match, 180 GMX copper, 178 eld, BTHP ,A-MAX, 180 BTSP, 180SST , ETC ....ALL 11 BULLETS with ballistics coefficients from g1 241 to .564 ...All use the same Max powder charge in that group of bullets. So plus or minus 5 grains of bullet weight with the same manufacturer seems to make little difference in the profile and neither does a fair amount of difference bearing surface within those weights....according to Hornady, ..and they have the measuring tools.
 
Look at Hornady's reloading manual 11th edition... bullets in 30-06...180 gr round nose, l76 grAtip match, 180 GMX copper, 178 eld, BTHP ,A-MAX, 180 BTSP, 180SST , ETC ....ALL 11 BULLETS with ballistics coefficients from g1 241 to .564 ...All use the same Max powder charge in that group of bullets. So plus or minus 5 grains of bullet weight with the same manufacturer seems to make little difference in the profile and neither does a fair amount of difference bearing surface within those weights....according to Hornady, ..and they have the measuring tools.
From my experiance and from other reloaders I speak to, projectile shape and jump to the lands gets important as you get to peak loads. I think more of an issue than bearing surface.
 
I ran a test a few years back where I had sorted a 500 count box of 168 SMK's and found a number of them with significant difference in the bearing surface lengths. Between the longest and shortest batch, I had a .033" difference. That difference prompted me to run a test to see how that difference might show up. If velocity is more a function of pressure than friction, I think you might draw some conclusions from the numbers I got where, yes, more bearing surface increases pressure (see pics below). Not only saw a definite difference in velocity, but also in POI.

View attachment 1360606View attachment 1360607

Note, I also measured the bullet's OAL and weight to see what differences there was with these different bearing surface lengths (Note, BL = Bullet Length):

View attachment 1360610View attachment 1360611
It's always fun to experiment and explore, and for accuracy try to get everything you can control as consistent as possible. But many variables are out of the reloaders control. Example the powder burns differently every time in the very same cartridge case. The primer flash is not the same and varies significantly, powders vary widely at the different pressures they are consumed and react differently as pressures increase, and sometimes get sharp increases in pressure or "spikes", hence that powder/bullet combination to be safe has to operate at a lower peak pressure than the others in it's class as it gets "spikey" on the upper end of the pressure curve with that bullet....and thats without even considering the bullet and all its variables,...or the rifle and all it's variables, with bore dimensions, chamber, twist, temperature, the steel it's made from. Not to mention outside exterior influences like wind and temperature. So shooting bullets in the same hole is a giant mixed bag of variables, most are out of your control, but you may get close from time to time. Do you ever wonder if the one or two of the variables helped you to shoot your best tiny group, and not your skill at shooting or wind reading? I tend to think so,... like a slight spike in pressure or off balance bullet jacket, would push the bullet out of the group, but the wind pushed the bullet into the center with the rest of the group...keep experimenting, I do. How valid is all this experimentation? I don't know...so many variables to contend with, to be truly scientific. But this ain't science class, believe in the shot when the trigger breaks, so do whatever you believe works for you and thanks for sharing.
 
It's always fun to experiment and explore, and for accuracy try to get everything you can control as consistent as possible. But many variables are out of the reloaders control. Example the powder burns differently every time in the very same cartridge case. The primer flash is not the same and varies significantly, powders vary widely at the different pressures they are consumed and react differently as pressures increase, and sometimes get sharp increases in pressure or "spikes", hence that powder/bullet combination to be safe has to operate at a lower peak pressure than the others in it's class as it gets "spikey" on the upper end of the pressure curve with that bullet....and thats without even considering the bullet and all its variables,...or the rifle and all it's variables, with bore dimensions, chamber, twist, temperature, the steel it's made from. Not to mention outside exterior influences like wind and temperature. So shooting bullets in the same hole is a giant mixed bag of variables, most are out of your control, but you may get close from time to time. Do you ever wonder if the one or two of the variables helped you to shoot your best tiny group, and not your skill at shooting or wind reading? I tend to think so,... like a slight spike in pressure or off balance bullet jacket, would push the bullet out of the group, but the wind pushed the bullet into the center with the rest of the group...keep experimenting, I do. How valid is all this experimentation? I don't know...so many variables to contend with, to be truly scientific. But this ain't science class, believe in the shot when the trigger breaks, so do whatever you believe works for you and thanks for sharing.
"Do you ever wonder if the one or two of the variables helped you to shoot your best tiny group, and not your skill at shooting or wind reading?"

Absolutely, and that's why I make an effort to stay away from drawing conclusions, about anything based on one offs and small data sets.

"How valid is all this experimentation?"

It depends on the size of the set of data and how well one can control what one can control.

"I don't know...so many variables to contend with, to be truly scientific"

You don't have to contend with all the variables in science. In fact, science (regarding anything) is more about statistical analysis of a lot of data. . . and it's not absolute. And, I might add, science is about questioning everything all the time so that past conclusions can be refined or changed base on new data cumulations.

When I used to coach baseball, one of the key things I tried to instill into my players about every aspect of the game was to control what you can control and forget about the rest. The better performers were the ones that best understood that. That's the approach I take with my shooting and reloading.
 
I am reminded of the perpetual college students with multiple degrees who never do anything meaningful with their life, but they can talk your ear of with "facts and knowledge".
 
Last year I switched over from Juggernaut OTM's to Juggernaut Targets , both 185gr , and the Jugg Target has a longer Bearing surface . After a couple of range sessions ; I did a Lab check to see if anything had changed velocity wise . Came to find out that the Jugg "Targets" were about twenty-five to thirty fps faster . Why was that , I thought ? The only conclusion I came up with , was having a longer bearing surface , the Jugg Target was getting a better "seal" in the barrel , thus the higher velocity . Of course ; I have no idea how one could even check that . But I did drop my load back two tenths .
 
Last year I switched over from Juggernaut OTM's to Juggernaut Targets , both 185gr , and the Jugg Target has a longer Bearing surface . After a couple of range sessions ; I did a Lab check to see if anything had changed velocity wise . Came to find out that the Jugg "Targets" were about twenty-five to thirty fps faster . Why was that , I thought ? The only conclusion I came up with , was having a longer bearing surface , the Jugg Target was getting a better "seal" in the barrel , thus the higher velocity . Of course ; I have no idea how one could even check that . But I did drop my load back two tenths .
How much difference was there in their bearing surfaces?

You're increased velocity for the longer bearing surfaces is in line with what I saw with my 168 SMK experiment for the longer bearing surfaces.


I do wonder how much of the increase in velocity is due to a deeper seating depth because of the lenght of the bearing surfaces . . . ???
 
Usually it does increase pressure. Diameter does too. Pressure does not always mean velocity though. When you choke them down they can need more pressure to hit the same speed. Usually what I see is the longer bearing bullets will shoot about the same speed and tune up similarly but pressure up faster. So your lower nodes my not change much, but you may not be able to run the higher nodes.
 
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I am reminded of the perpetual college students with multiple degrees who never do anything meaningful with their life, but they can talk your ear of with "facts and knowledge".
I recently saw that referred to as “when your education exceeds your intelligence “ lol
 

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